7 ms·

Are you rich/have no kids? Because most people probably cannot relate to the life you're living right now.

low_common 5y ago
Edit: Sorry, I did not read the article before reading your comment. The point was "what are you retiring to?" I understand what you're saying now.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
TheSmiddy 5y ago
"I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup" They're rich.
lupire 5y ago
I don't think the Amish are particularly rich or childless?
- hesdeadjim 5y ago
  This is where assumptions can get you in trouble. The Amish are extremely business savvy, shrewd negotiators, and have no issues being active members in the economy. They also own vast tracts of very valuable land (especially in Lancaster, PA). Combine that with being frugal and austere, and it's a recipe for wealth. For childcare, their community focus let's them share the burden amongst the larger group. Additionally, children are not nearly as coddled and are expected to contribute to the family's work, and help co-parent their siblings. Compare this to the average nuclear family: underpaid, barely any savings, most likely rents, and lucky if they have even one family member nearby that can share the childcare burden.
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    I will say this, if there is one thing I can do for my child (other than learning proper money management), when the time is right I will help them with the down payment on a home. Holy crap it's so much more important than renting. It seems like a hassle, I know, but building generational equity gives you such a leg up in the world.
    - xur17 5y ago
      I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. A house is a form of forced savings, which is why it works so well for people, but you absolutely can build up wealth while renting.
      - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
        It is for sure possible, no argument, but the actuality of it is relatively small, while the renters are putting in equity into someone else's pocket =/ Your "rent", as it were, goes towards something (even if a large portion of it is interest.. and extra payment a year towards the principal goes a long way).
    - neogodless 5y ago
      In many areas, the amount you pay in rent isn't much different than what you pay in the ITI parts of PITI (principal, interest, taxes, insurance) plus the maintenance costs. On top of that, the difference between mortgage + maintenance and rent could be invested and growing over time. There's no guarantee that buying a house will leave you richer than if you'd rented during the same time. Check out this calculator to explore your personal situation more closely, and examine the assumptions you make about growing wealth. I know from personal experience, owning my first home, that I almost certainly would've been better off renting over that time period and investing the down payment and higher monthly payments than I ended up with having that house and equity. Sometimes you get lucky - and house prices go up and you sell at the right time (assuming you switch back to rent OR manage to then buy in a market where prices are lower than average.) https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-cal...
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Amish are pretty much like everyone else though, there are dirt-poor Amish communities out there to counter-balance your land-and-small-business-rich ones.
    - hesdeadjim 5y ago
      Fair, though the childcare aspect still holds merit.
  - beyondzero 5y ago
    Lancaster, PA resident here. Many, possibly most, Amish are not farmers anymore. To your point, a lot own businesses like lawn care, grocery and hardware stores, tourist traps, and construction companies. Since childcare is mentioned, I would be remiss if I did not point out that the Amish have a disproportionate rate of child sex abuse. Offenders often get off because the Amish community pressures victims not to testify. Victims are sent to re-education centers. It is pretty gross what goes on in plain (pardon the pun) sight. But they bring in tourist dollars. Most Amish are lovely of course, but their lifestyle has a very dark side.
godot 5y ago
Although you replied that you did not read the article first, I think you still do make a valid point. Here is an excerpt from the article: > Of course, some lucky people already know exactly what they’re retiring to, answers firmly in hand. > Examples: > It’s been a lifelong dream of mine to quit my current career and take something lower paying and more meaningful: teaching or contributing to a non-profit. > I’m going to do a lot of parenting. My kids can easily eat 14 hours a day, every day. The _second_ example here already calls out that it's going to be common to do parenting 14 hours a day if people retire early. For someone who has kids, it's pretty unlikely to be able to roll with life and see what comes up. It just isn't possible, with or without a job, being financially independent or not. And whether we like it or not, a large percentage of the population above 40 do have kids. This is purely my opinion, but I'm actually not sure that, for a child past 2 years old or so, if it's a good idea for a parent to be with their child 24/7. I think there's a lot of value in learning social interactions with other children in a daycare or preschool. I did this exact thing for 3 years and am transitioning the child to preschool at 3 years old, and it has been difficult. On top of it all, let's say your kids are school age, somewhere between 3 to 16. Let's say they go to school during the day, and you have free time during the day. There is another discussion to be had about your kids' mentality if they grow up with parents who don't need to work. Sure, maybe in the near future, in this next generation, we'll enter a society where work is unnecessary and everyone lives off of UBI, and maybe the discussion is moot. But assuming that won't be the case, would you want your children to grow up with the impression that when they grow up into adults there's no need to do any productive work, or have parents as role models who contribute meaningfully to society? Maybe I haven't thought it through, maybe I'm just not smart enough. I'm at a point in life where I could feasibly "lean FIRE" if I really want to, but for the sake of my child I'd rather continue to work. Which then leads to answering this post, my FI and retirement almost isn't about me, it's about my child/children. Or maybe that just means I'm that guy who said "I'm going to do a lot of parenting" then.

Edit: Sorry, I did not read the article before reading your comment. The point was "what are you retiring to?" I understand what you're saying now.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

TheSmiddy 5y ago

"I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup" They're rich.

lupire 5y ago

I don't think the Amish are particularly rich or childless?

hesdeadjim 5y ago
This is where assumptions can get you in trouble. The Amish are extremely business savvy, shrewd negotiators, and have no issues being active members in the economy. They also own vast tracts of very valuable land (especially in Lancaster, PA). Combine that with being frugal and austere, and it's a recipe for wealth. For childcare, their community focus let's them share the burden amongst the larger group. Additionally, children are not nearly as coddled and are expected to contribute to the family's work, and help co-parent their siblings. Compare this to the average nuclear family: underpaid, barely any savings, most likely rents, and lucky if they have even one family member nearby that can share the childcare burden.
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  I will say this, if there is one thing I can do for my child (other than learning proper money management), when the time is right I will help them with the down payment on a home. Holy crap it's so much more important than renting. It seems like a hassle, I know, but building generational equity gives you such a leg up in the world.
  - xur17 5y ago
    I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. A house is a form of forced savings, which is why it works so well for people, but you absolutely can build up wealth while renting.
    - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
      It is for sure possible, no argument, but the actuality of it is relatively small, while the renters are putting in equity into someone else's pocket =/ Your "rent", as it were, goes towards something (even if a large portion of it is interest.. and extra payment a year towards the principal goes a long way).
  - neogodless 5y ago
    In many areas, the amount you pay in rent isn't much different than what you pay in the ITI parts of PITI (principal, interest, taxes, insurance) plus the maintenance costs. On top of that, the difference between mortgage + maintenance and rent could be invested and growing over time. There's no guarantee that buying a house will leave you richer than if you'd rented during the same time. Check out this calculator to explore your personal situation more closely, and examine the assumptions you make about growing wealth. I know from personal experience, owning my first home, that I almost certainly would've been better off renting over that time period and investing the down payment and higher monthly payments than I ended up with having that house and equity. Sometimes you get lucky - and house prices go up and you sell at the right time (assuming you switch back to rent OR manage to then buy in a market where prices are lower than average.) https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-cal...
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Amish are pretty much like everyone else though, there are dirt-poor Amish communities out there to counter-balance your land-and-small-business-rich ones.
  - hesdeadjim 5y ago
    Fair, though the childcare aspect still holds merit.
- beyondzero 5y ago
  Lancaster, PA resident here. Many, possibly most, Amish are not farmers anymore. To your point, a lot own businesses like lawn care, grocery and hardware stores, tourist traps, and construction companies. Since childcare is mentioned, I would be remiss if I did not point out that the Amish have a disproportionate rate of child sex abuse. Offenders often get off because the Amish community pressures victims not to testify. Victims are sent to re-education centers. It is pretty gross what goes on in plain (pardon the pun) sight. But they bring in tourist dollars. Most Amish are lovely of course, but their lifestyle has a very dark side.

godot 5y ago

Although you replied that you did not read the article first, I think you still do make a valid point. Here is an excerpt from the article: > Of course, some lucky people already know exactly what they’re retiring to, answers firmly in hand. > Examples: > It’s been a lifelong dream of mine to quit my current career and take something lower paying and more meaningful: teaching or contributing to a non-profit. > I’m going to do a lot of parenting. My kids can easily eat 14 hours a day, every day. The _second_ example here already calls out that it's going to be common to do parenting 14 hours a day if people retire early. For someone who has kids, it's pretty unlikely to be able to roll with life and see what comes up. It just isn't possible, with or without a job, being financially independent or not. And whether we like it or not, a large percentage of the population above 40 do have kids. This is purely my opinion, but I'm actually not sure that, for a child past 2 years old or so, if it's a good idea for a parent to be with their child 24/7. I think there's a lot of value in learning social interactions with other children in a daycare or preschool. I did this exact thing for 3 years and am transitioning the child to preschool at 3 years old, and it has been difficult. On top of it all, let's say your kids are school age, somewhere between 3 to 16. Let's say they go to school during the day, and you have free time during the day. There is another discussion to be had about your kids' mentality if they grow up with parents who don't need to work. Sure, maybe in the near future, in this next generation, we'll enter a society where work is unnecessary and everyone lives off of UBI, and maybe the discussion is moot. But assuming that won't be the case, would you want your children to grow up with the impression that when they grow up into adults there's no need to do any productive work, or have parents as role models who contribute meaningfully to society? Maybe I haven't thought it through, maybe I'm just not smart enough. I'm at a point in life where I could feasibly "lean FIRE" if I really want to, but for the sake of my child I'd rather continue to work. Which then leads to answering this post, my FI and retirement almost isn't about me, it's about my child/children. Or maybe that just means I'm that guy who said "I'm going to do a lot of parenting" then.