6 ms·

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the i

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like me and think, "its still not enough ... inflation is gonna explode ... the market will collapse as soon as i quit ... if i stop working i'll never get hired again because i'm old ... if i retire early i'll probably get in car accident and go broke from medical bills...". Some of us are just naturally full of panic, others can jump into the mist and be OK with that. EDIT: Added this scene from Indiana Jones (#3) that has stuck with me my whole life (and I'm an athiest!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JIfjNnnMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JIfjNnnMA

someelephant 5y ago
Sorry to hear you operate at such a high baseline anxiety. I certainly hope you've explored every avenue outside addictive medications for getting it under control. And yes, I think any American should rightfully be terrified of being bankrupted by medical bills. But the world is a big place and a lot of it is much safer than the US.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Thanks. My therapist has taught me a technique of collecting "past evidence" every time I start to spin-out, and it helps me control it, but I'm not sure I could apply it to such a big thing, yet. We're working on it. But I like his approach more than my friends who are like, "you are better off than 99% of the USA so STFU." Yes, I know that, but it doesn't address the core mental issue(s).
- mikem170 5y ago
  > American should rightfully be terrified of being bankrupted by medical bills FYI: Retirement accounts are protected from medical bills in many states, even without filing bankruptcy. This varies, and the amount protected, by state. The feds allow one million dollars in an ira to be protected from medical bills if declaring bankruptcy. [0] [0] https://pocketsense.com/can-ira-pay-medical-bills-7887792.html https://pocketsense.com/can-ira-pay-medical-bills-7887792.ht...
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," He posted a follow-up blog post years later. Sadly, it didn't work out for him. He had to return to work. I agree with your general sentiment: Some of these extreme early retirement stories are really pushing the limits reasonable amounts of money to retire with. I don't think it's reasonable for people in their 30s or even 20s to look at their finances and assume their spending will stay constant for the next 6 decades of their lives.
- ddlutz 5y ago
  people in 20s and 30s spending usually should go down in retirement, right? Ideally you have no mortgage and depending on your situation save 1.5k-4k a month post-tax right there.
  - mrigor 5y ago
    Spending usually looks like a smile curve, high at first (travel, hobbies, toys) then low (done all the things) then high (medical bills).
- chaostheory 5y ago
  It’s worked out for this guy https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from...
- bradlys 5y ago
  It did workout for him financially (for his own share). It just didn’t workout for him emotionally. Commenter seemed more scared of market exploding and black swan events than the emotional side.
didip 5y ago
Same here, this is why my goal is to simply FI not RE. Once I FI'ed, then I can take whatever job I want based on fun or personal aspiration.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Waiting ~6 more years to hit 59.5 so I can try to do exactly this and draw from my IRA w/o penalty. (I did some research into Roth conversion to avoid penalties but you can only withdraw a certain amount and only for certain items, not general expenses.)
  - stocknoob 5y ago
    Look up the 72t election. You can withdraw from an IRA tax free, no penalty, you just need to set up a schedule. The government wants to encourage saving, and penalizes people from random large withdrawals for impulse buys. Careful, scheduled withdrawals are allowed.
trashface 5y ago
A lot of it depends on your yearly spend. My spend is in the range of 20 to 30K. Its been in that range for years. I'm just not very material-goods oriented (my car is 24 years old). I've done some calculations and I would be OK with a 2000->2008 style downturn, though, a 2000->2013 downturn would be more problematic. Its not the lifestyle for everyone though, I agree. Though, I do think its prudent for younger people to plan _as if_ they might need to retire early, since the market may decide that they are no longer needed or desirable as workers. Perhaps especially so for tech workers, who already face ageism-based discrimination.
dheera 5y ago
How do you get 2.5M in an IRA if they only let you put in 6K a year? Can you buy dogecoin in an IRA?
- awithrow 5y ago
  If you had a 401k when leaving a job, you can roll that into your IRA. A 401k has much higher limits
  - dheera 5y ago
    so you can put upto 401K into an IRA when you leave?
    - awithrow 5y ago
      no, the savings vehicle at many workplaces is called a 401(k) (named after the section of the tax code that describes it). When you leave a job that offered the 401(k) you can take the money that was in it and transfer it to your IRA. This process is called a "rollover". 401(k)s have much higher contribution limits, can have money added to it by the employer (usually via matching contributions) and sometimes have methods to add after tax money to them.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  I've had a 401K since I was 21 (30+ years investing) and put the max in every year following the "normal" investment strategy (balanced mutual funds). And had company matching almost every year as well. This means I invested through the tech boom of the 90's and the recovery of 2008. At one point I left jobs and rolled the 401K into a managed IRA because I didn't have a job for a brief period. Now I have another 401K with another company, but I chose not to roll my original one into the new 401K because my IRA has better investment options. TL;DR: Start investing as soon as you can, and by "investing" I mean the Warren Buffet way on the diversified mutual fund grid (cap vs valuation), and not this memestock/crypto B.S.
- qntty 5y ago
  The 6k limit is for a Roth IRA, which is only one kind of IRA.

someelephant 5y ago

Sorry to hear you operate at such a high baseline anxiety. I certainly hope you've explored every avenue outside addictive medications for getting it under control. And yes, I think any American should rightfully be terrified of being bankrupted by medical bills. But the world is a big place and a lot of it is much safer than the US.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
Thanks. My therapist has taught me a technique of collecting "past evidence" every time I start to spin-out, and it helps me control it, but I'm not sure I could apply it to such a big thing, yet. We're working on it. But I like his approach more than my friends who are like, "you are better off than 99% of the USA so STFU." Yes, I know that, but it doesn't address the core mental issue(s).
mikem170 5y ago
> American should rightfully be terrified of being bankrupted by medical bills FYI: Retirement accounts are protected from medical bills in many states, even without filing bankruptcy. This varies, and the amount protected, by state. The feds allow one million dollars in an ira to be protected from medical bills if declaring bankruptcy. [0] [0] https://pocketsense.com/can-ira-pay-medical-bills-7887792.html https://pocketsense.com/can-ira-pay-medical-bills-7887792.ht...

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," He posted a follow-up blog post years later. Sadly, it didn't work out for him. He had to return to work. I agree with your general sentiment: Some of these extreme early retirement stories are really pushing the limits reasonable amounts of money to retire with. I don't think it's reasonable for people in their 30s or even 20s to look at their finances and assume their spending will stay constant for the next 6 decades of their lives.

ddlutz 5y ago
people in 20s and 30s spending usually should go down in retirement, right? Ideally you have no mortgage and depending on your situation save 1.5k-4k a month post-tax right there.
- mrigor 5y ago
  Spending usually looks like a smile curve, high at first (travel, hobbies, toys) then low (done all the things) then high (medical bills).
chaostheory 5y ago
It’s worked out for this guy https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from...
bradlys 5y ago
It did workout for him financially (for his own share). It just didn’t workout for him emotionally. Commenter seemed more scared of market exploding and black swan events than the emotional side.

didip 5y ago

Same here, this is why my goal is to simply FI not RE. Once I FI'ed, then I can take whatever job I want based on fun or personal aspiration.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
Waiting ~6 more years to hit 59.5 so I can try to do exactly this and draw from my IRA w/o penalty. (I did some research into Roth conversion to avoid penalties but you can only withdraw a certain amount and only for certain items, not general expenses.)
- stocknoob 5y ago
  Look up the 72t election. You can withdraw from an IRA tax free, no penalty, you just need to set up a schedule. The government wants to encourage saving, and penalizes people from random large withdrawals for impulse buys. Careful, scheduled withdrawals are allowed.

trashface 5y ago

A lot of it depends on your yearly spend. My spend is in the range of 20 to 30K. Its been in that range for years. I'm just not very material-goods oriented (my car is 24 years old). I've done some calculations and I would be OK with a 2000->2008 style downturn, though, a 2000->2013 downturn would be more problematic. Its not the lifestyle for everyone though, I agree. Though, I do think its prudent for younger people to plan _as if_ they might need to retire early, since the market may decide that they are no longer needed or desirable as workers. Perhaps especially so for tech workers, who already face ageism-based discrimination.

dheera 5y ago

How do you get 2.5M in an IRA if they only let you put in 6K a year? Can you buy dogecoin in an IRA?

awithrow 5y ago
If you had a 401k when leaving a job, you can roll that into your IRA. A 401k has much higher limits
- dheera 5y ago
  so you can put upto 401K into an IRA when you leave?
  - awithrow 5y ago
    no, the savings vehicle at many workplaces is called a 401(k) (named after the section of the tax code that describes it). When you leave a job that offered the 401(k) you can take the money that was in it and transfer it to your IRA. This process is called a "rollover". 401(k)s have much higher contribution limits, can have money added to it by the employer (usually via matching contributions) and sometimes have methods to add after tax money to them.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
I've had a 401K since I was 21 (30+ years investing) and put the max in every year following the "normal" investment strategy (balanced mutual funds). And had company matching almost every year as well. This means I invested through the tech boom of the 90's and the recovery of 2008. At one point I left jobs and rolled the 401K into a managed IRA because I didn't have a job for a brief period. Now I have another 401K with another company, but I chose not to roll my original one into the new 401K because my IRA has better investment options. TL;DR: Start investing as soon as you can, and by "investing" I mean the Warren Buffet way on the diversified mutual fund grid (cap vs valuation), and not this memestock/crypto B.S.
qntty 5y ago
The 6k limit is for a Roth IRA, which is only one kind of IRA.