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Re: lyx as a hard to get into GUI. Overleaf has decent tab completion and dozens of templates, as well as limited support for markdown. Let tabnine and copilot

Re: lyx as a hard to get into GUI. Overleaf has decent tab completion and dozens of templates, as well as limited support for markdown. Let tabnine and copilot get to LaTeX; I think we’ll find the discoverability of “text language on Adderall” outguns GUIs.

GiovanniP 5y ago
My main "for" point towards GUIs is that one is able to read back easily what one wrote. On the other hand, to read comfortably a LaTeX equation I have to compile it; then for editing I have to move my attention back and forth from the compiled document to the source. (corrected a mistype)
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  It's mainly tables and to some extent figures that are intrinsically harder to read when written in TeX. The bulk of the text is just text, so if that's hard to read that's down to your editor settings.
  - GiovanniP 5y ago
    I have an example on-hand for that---it is also equations, look at this, I need to compile it to understand it (it needs the amsmath package): { \def \l {\mathrm{l}} \def \r {\mathrm{r}} \def \Bl {\mathrm{Bl}} \def \Br {\mathrm{Br}} \def \B {\mathrm{B}} \def \nIIom {n_{2\omega}} \begin{equation}\label{eq:interface_conditions} \begin{aligned} F_{1\l} &= F_{2\r} + F_{2\l} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + F_{\Br} + F_{\Bl} \exp(i\,k_\B L) \\ F_{1\r} &= -\nIIom \, F_{2\r} + \nIIom \, F_{2\l} \exp (i\,k_2 L) - \nIIom \, F_{\Br} + \nIIom \, F_{\Bl} \exp(i\,k_\B L)\\ F_{3\r} &= F_{2\r} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + F_{2\l} + F_{\Br} \exp(i\,k_\B L) + F_{\Bl} \\ -F_{3\l} &= \nIIom \, F_{2\r} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + \nIIom \, F_{2\l} - \nIIom \, F_{\Br} \exp(i\,k_\B L) + \nIIom \, F_{\Bl} \end{aligned} \end{equation} } (by the way the formula may contain some math mistakes---it is supposed to represent interface conditions for a system of waves in a nonlinear optical medium---but it is good enough for showing the editing point)
    - quietbritishjim 5y ago
      Just to add to that, your example would be even worse if you didn't have the macros at the beginning: F_{1\mathrm{l}} &= F_{2\mathrm{r}} + F_{2\mathrm{l}} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + F_{\mathrm{Br}} + F_{\mathrm{Bl}} \exp(i\,k_\mathrm{B} L) ... The obvious objection is that of course most people do use macros. But that's the point: every LaTeX document ends up being its own impenetrable language.
    - SiempreViernes 5y ago
      Ok, equations can get much trickier, but I don't think this is example too bad, you didn't even write a single multiline nested fraction. On the other hand, you don't write complicated mathematical equations quickly if you've got any sense anyway.
      - quietbritishjim 5y ago
        > you don't write complicated mathematical equations quickly if you've got any sense anyway I don't get this line of reasoning. Writing equations is hard, so what difference does it make if you make it a lot harder? I think the fact it's hard makes it even more important to make it easier to write! Proofreading / editing (as opposed to writing) is even more severe. When using raw LaTeX, there's absolutely no way you can be sure the equation is right without checking the PDF, so you end up in a slow loop of typesetting (the whole document!), read something for a while, go back to the LaTeX to fix something you've found, spend a while finding where the problem is, etc.; in LyX you're just organically reading and editing the document. If you spot an incorrect subscript, you just click on it and fix it then carry on reading. In raw LaTeX that can 100 times as long, or even longer still if you take into account the context switch of your mind.
Breza 5y ago
I hadn't even considered the potential power of TabNine in LaTeX! That could be a gamechanger for routine stuff. And I second your endorsement of Overleaf. I had to write a research proposal a few weeks back for work after not touching academic writing for 7 years. Overleaf made the process relatively painless.
quietbritishjim 5y ago
> I think we’ll find the discoverability of “text language on Adderall” outguns GUIs No way. Nothing can outgun typing a parameter into a box rather than the visual clutter of braces (or some other delimiter). What's more, maths notation often involves objects of different sizes, which isn't reflected in any fixed-width text language. Equations in my PhD were often 80% about the subscripts/superscripts if you read the raw LaTeX, with the most important stuff buried away; but when you look at the equation as rendered, or in a GUI, the most important bits are trivial to read off. > lyx as a hard to get into GUI I only suggest LyX is hard to get into because some people only get into it at a surface level, which it's actually very easy to get into but then you don't get all the benefits of LaTeX. Best case scenario is you know both LaTeX and how to use LyX, then you can spend 1% of your time writing bits of LaTeX (in the preamble, or using math macros [1], or directly including the odd snippet of raw LaTeX as a last resort (even then put them within an instant preview)) and 99% of your time using the GUI. [1] https://www.lyx.org/VisualTour#toc6 https://www.lyx.org/VisualTour#toc6
- tobmlt 5y ago
  When I was getting to know LaTeX I would use LyX as a quick reference guide. Nice to have so much LaTeX info offline. Basically the reverse of your usage as the learning went on, and then finally going to pure LaTeX sometime in the foggy past.

GiovanniP 5y ago

My main "for" point towards GUIs is that one is able to read back easily what one wrote. On the other hand, to read comfortably a LaTeX equation I have to compile it; then for editing I have to move my attention back and forth from the compiled document to the source. (corrected a mistype)

SiempreViernes 5y ago
It's mainly tables and to some extent figures that are intrinsically harder to read when written in TeX. The bulk of the text is just text, so if that's hard to read that's down to your editor settings.
- GiovanniP 5y ago
  I have an example on-hand for that---it is also equations, look at this, I need to compile it to understand it (it needs the amsmath package): { \def \l {\mathrm{l}} \def \r {\mathrm{r}} \def \Bl {\mathrm{Bl}} \def \Br {\mathrm{Br}} \def \B {\mathrm{B}} \def \nIIom {n_{2\omega}} \begin{equation}\label{eq:interface_conditions} \begin{aligned} F_{1\l} &= F_{2\r} + F_{2\l} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + F_{\Br} + F_{\Bl} \exp(i\,k_\B L) \\ F_{1\r} &= -\nIIom \, F_{2\r} + \nIIom \, F_{2\l} \exp (i\,k_2 L) - \nIIom \, F_{\Br} + \nIIom \, F_{\Bl} \exp(i\,k_\B L)\\ F_{3\r} &= F_{2\r} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + F_{2\l} + F_{\Br} \exp(i\,k_\B L) + F_{\Bl} \\ -F_{3\l} &= \nIIom \, F_{2\r} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + \nIIom \, F_{2\l} - \nIIom \, F_{\Br} \exp(i\,k_\B L) + \nIIom \, F_{\Bl} \end{aligned} \end{equation} } (by the way the formula may contain some math mistakes---it is supposed to represent interface conditions for a system of waves in a nonlinear optical medium---but it is good enough for showing the editing point)
  - quietbritishjim 5y ago
    Just to add to that, your example would be even worse if you didn't have the macros at the beginning: F_{1\mathrm{l}} &= F_{2\mathrm{r}} + F_{2\mathrm{l}} \exp (i\,k_2 L) + F_{\mathrm{Br}} + F_{\mathrm{Bl}} \exp(i\,k_\mathrm{B} L) ... The obvious objection is that of course most people do use macros. But that's the point: every LaTeX document ends up being its own impenetrable language.
  - SiempreViernes 5y ago
    Ok, equations can get much trickier, but I don't think this is example too bad, you didn't even write a single multiline nested fraction. On the other hand, you don't write complicated mathematical equations quickly if you've got any sense anyway.
    - quietbritishjim 5y ago
      > you don't write complicated mathematical equations quickly if you've got any sense anyway I don't get this line of reasoning. Writing equations is hard, so what difference does it make if you make it a lot harder? I think the fact it's hard makes it even more important to make it easier to write! Proofreading / editing (as opposed to writing) is even more severe. When using raw LaTeX, there's absolutely no way you can be sure the equation is right without checking the PDF, so you end up in a slow loop of typesetting (the whole document!), read something for a while, go back to the LaTeX to fix something you've found, spend a while finding where the problem is, etc.; in LyX you're just organically reading and editing the document. If you spot an incorrect subscript, you just click on it and fix it then carry on reading. In raw LaTeX that can 100 times as long, or even longer still if you take into account the context switch of your mind.

Breza 5y ago

I hadn't even considered the potential power of TabNine in LaTeX! That could be a gamechanger for routine stuff. And I second your endorsement of Overleaf. I had to write a research proposal a few weeks back for work after not touching academic writing for 7 years. Overleaf made the process relatively painless.

quietbritishjim 5y ago

> I think we’ll find the discoverability of “text language on Adderall” outguns GUIs No way. Nothing can outgun typing a parameter into a box rather than the visual clutter of braces (or some other delimiter). What's more, maths notation often involves objects of different sizes, which isn't reflected in any fixed-width text language. Equations in my PhD were often 80% about the subscripts/superscripts if you read the raw LaTeX, with the most important stuff buried away; but when you look at the equation as rendered, or in a GUI, the most important bits are trivial to read off. > lyx as a hard to get into GUI I only suggest LyX is hard to get into because some people only get into it at a surface level, which it's actually very easy to get into but then you don't get all the benefits of LaTeX. Best case scenario is you know both LaTeX and how to use LyX, then you can spend 1% of your time writing bits of LaTeX (in the preamble, or using math macros [1], or directly including the odd snippet of raw LaTeX as a last resort (even then put them within an instant preview)) and 99% of your time using the GUI. [1] https://www.lyx.org/VisualTour#toc6 https://www.lyx.org/VisualTour#toc6

tobmlt 5y ago
When I was getting to know LaTeX I would use LyX as a quick reference guide. Nice to have so much LaTeX info offline. Basically the reverse of your usage as the learning went on, and then finally going to pure LaTeX sometime in the foggy past.