4 ms·

The numbers are between 95% of Pfizer at his best and 50% of Sinovac. And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making

The numbers are between 95% of Pfizer at his best and 50% of Sinovac. And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. But the final point I was trying to pass is that isolation of the sick will slowly push the virus to evolve in more contagious but less risky variants. Undetected infections in the vaccinated might cause strains that evade the vaccine and possibly be more dangerous (because of the lack of symptoms and isolation.)

adriancr 5y ago
> And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw
- codeflow2202 5y ago
  You must be kidding me. This is proof that you pro covid mrna therapy are just mindless news consumers. Have you ever spent a second reading articles or watching the data about what you believe? tot cases/1M pop -> usa 104525 india 22200 deaths/1M pop -> usa 1872 india 295 There is no single country in asia that did as bad as the USA in the deaths department. What's now your next extravagant excuse? That the usa has been overcounting its deaths to scare its people into covid mrna therpies?
  - adriancr 5y ago
    Oh boy ... You must not know anyone in India... I know people that have lost family members there. They were struggling to get them spots in hospitals, everything is mess of corruption, under reporting, overflowed hospitals. They're not even testing properly... See the airplane full of corona positive people with negative 'PCR' tests.
    - codeflow2202 5y ago
      I do know people from India. But these are the numbers like it or not. You seem to be cherry picking only the numbers that convalidate your vision. I can't tell how much of it is undercounting in India, how much is overcounting in the USA, and how much of it is that the friends and family networks in India count hundreds of people as opposed to the westerner ones.
      - adriancr 5y ago
        Numbers are usually fudged, especially in corrupt countries. It's also easy to have good numbers if you issue negative results without doing the actual tests and if you count the deaths as that of something else. Hints of the false tests are: - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/20/49-passengers-on-india-hong-kong-flight-test-positive-for-covid https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/20/49-passengers-on-in... - all of the ones that were positive had negative PCR tests... done in india Similar things were happening in Communist Romania, hence my skepticism of India's number (back then - record "harvests", everybody well fed and happy, etc, meanwhile everyone was starving as crops were sold off on external markets) Either way, best of luck, this discussion was fun for a while.
        codeflow2202 5y ago
        When did we decide that sharing aljazeera and citing what your friends told you > official data? I mean, I agree that official data can be forged and should be taken with a grain of salt but come on. You can do better than this. Also it has been proven that there is a strong inverse correlation between vitamin D levels and covid severity. If we assume that you are right and many more people died in India, how can you prove that it's because the vaccine that in Europe the mortality is so much lower? https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/clinem/dgab439/6303537 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/cl... + https://revista-fi.com.br/upload_arquivos/201606/2016060068176001464973585.pdf https://revista-fi.com.br/upload_arquivos/201606/20160600681... + https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2405457721001911 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S24054...
- codeflow2202 5y ago
  And I'm happy you mention polio because it's a great example of what can happen when we allow companies to rush their product without enough safety standards: In April 1955, soon after mass polio vaccination began in the US, the Surgeon General began to receive reports of patients who contracted paralytic polio about a week after being vaccinated with Salk polio vaccine from the Cutter pharmaceutical company, with the paralysis limited to the limb the vaccine was injected into. The Cutter vaccine had been used in vaccinating 200,000 children in the western and midwestern United States.[76] Later investigations showed that the Cutter vaccine had caused 40,000 cases of polio, killing 10.[76] In response the Surgeon General pulled all polio vaccines made by Cutter Laboratories from the market, but not before 250 cases of paralytic illness had occurred. Wyeth polio vaccine was also reported to have paralyzed and killed several children. It was soon discovered that some lots of Salk polio vaccine made by Cutter and Wyeth had not been properly inactivated, allowing live poliovirus into more than 100,000 doses of vaccine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine
  - adriancr 5y ago
    1. Same site: > The inactivated polio vaccines are very safe 2. Do you have to worry about polio now?, no, why? 3. We have processes in place to verify vaccines, that's why you got news about janssen or whatever throwing away millions of doses due to contamination.
    - codeflow2202 5y ago
      You are not opposing my point: 1. shit happened 2. rules have been put in place to avoid it from happening again 3. we are now skipping these rules in the name of urgency. These are not vaccines but gene therapies that have never been tested. History proves risks do exist when new therapies are given to people. I suppose when a normal vaccine like the novavax is coming out there won't be as much opposition.
      - adriancr 5y ago
        I don't understand your skepticism... Alas... not my business... I took the vaccine and there are no side effects. Same for all people I know. Same for countless others. If you bring up risk, I think a much bigger risk is the virus destroying a good part of your lungs/kidneys/heart/etc... Ending up in ER and dieing... And without everyone vaccinating it won't disappear. Either way, good luck

adriancr 5y ago

> And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw

codeflow2202 5y ago
You must be kidding me. This is proof that you pro covid mrna therapy are just mindless news consumers. Have you ever spent a second reading articles or watching the data about what you believe? tot cases/1M pop -> usa 104525 india 22200 deaths/1M pop -> usa 1872 india 295 There is no single country in asia that did as bad as the USA in the deaths department. What's now your next extravagant excuse? That the usa has been overcounting its deaths to scare its people into covid mrna therpies?
- adriancr 5y ago
  Oh boy ... You must not know anyone in India... I know people that have lost family members there. They were struggling to get them spots in hospitals, everything is mess of corruption, under reporting, overflowed hospitals. They're not even testing properly... See the airplane full of corona positive people with negative 'PCR' tests.
  - codeflow2202 5y ago
    I do know people from India. But these are the numbers like it or not. You seem to be cherry picking only the numbers that convalidate your vision. I can't tell how much of it is undercounting in India, how much is overcounting in the USA, and how much of it is that the friends and family networks in India count hundreds of people as opposed to the westerner ones.
    - adriancr 5y ago
      Numbers are usually fudged, especially in corrupt countries. It's also easy to have good numbers if you issue negative results without doing the actual tests and if you count the deaths as that of something else. Hints of the false tests are: - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/20/49-passengers-on-india-hong-kong-flight-test-positive-for-covid https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/20/49-passengers-on-in... - all of the ones that were positive had negative PCR tests... done in india Similar things were happening in Communist Romania, hence my skepticism of India's number (back then - record "harvests", everybody well fed and happy, etc, meanwhile everyone was starving as crops were sold off on external markets) Either way, best of luck, this discussion was fun for a while.
      - codeflow2202 5y ago
        When did we decide that sharing aljazeera and citing what your friends told you > official data? I mean, I agree that official data can be forged and should be taken with a grain of salt but come on. You can do better than this. Also it has been proven that there is a strong inverse correlation between vitamin D levels and covid severity. If we assume that you are right and many more people died in India, how can you prove that it's because the vaccine that in Europe the mortality is so much lower? https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/clinem/dgab439/6303537 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/cl... + https://revista-fi.com.br/upload_arquivos/201606/2016060068176001464973585.pdf https://revista-fi.com.br/upload_arquivos/201606/20160600681... + https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2405457721001911 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S24054...
codeflow2202 5y ago
And I'm happy you mention polio because it's a great example of what can happen when we allow companies to rush their product without enough safety standards: In April 1955, soon after mass polio vaccination began in the US, the Surgeon General began to receive reports of patients who contracted paralytic polio about a week after being vaccinated with Salk polio vaccine from the Cutter pharmaceutical company, with the paralysis limited to the limb the vaccine was injected into. The Cutter vaccine had been used in vaccinating 200,000 children in the western and midwestern United States.[76] Later investigations showed that the Cutter vaccine had caused 40,000 cases of polio, killing 10.[76] In response the Surgeon General pulled all polio vaccines made by Cutter Laboratories from the market, but not before 250 cases of paralytic illness had occurred. Wyeth polio vaccine was also reported to have paralyzed and killed several children. It was soon discovered that some lots of Salk polio vaccine made by Cutter and Wyeth had not been properly inactivated, allowing live poliovirus into more than 100,000 doses of vaccine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine
- adriancr 5y ago
  1. Same site: > The inactivated polio vaccines are very safe 2. Do you have to worry about polio now?, no, why? 3. We have processes in place to verify vaccines, that's why you got news about janssen or whatever throwing away millions of doses due to contamination.
  - codeflow2202 5y ago
    You are not opposing my point: 1. shit happened 2. rules have been put in place to avoid it from happening again 3. we are now skipping these rules in the name of urgency. These are not vaccines but gene therapies that have never been tested. History proves risks do exist when new therapies are given to people. I suppose when a normal vaccine like the novavax is coming out there won't be as much opposition.
    - adriancr 5y ago
      I don't understand your skepticism... Alas... not my business... I took the vaccine and there are no side effects. Same for all people I know. Same for countless others. If you bring up risk, I think a much bigger risk is the virus destroying a good part of your lungs/kidneys/heart/etc... Ending up in ER and dieing... And without everyone vaccinating it won't disappear. Either way, good luck