6 ms·

You are surprisingly optimistic. We have been a few months in the vaccination campaign and we are already in need of boosters to patch new strains. Even if the

You are surprisingly optimistic. We have been a few months in the vaccination campaign and we are already in need of boosters to patch new strains. Even if the numbers you mention are true, you still have to deliver a product with extremely complex logistics in highly unreachable places (vaccinating westerners with our infrastructure is way easier than doing the same in Africa), hope that they will really deliver those numbers at that speed, and cross fingers that when this happens, the virus hasn't already mutated enough to make it obsolete. Consider also that many people in third world countries do not trust westerners so I would predict that the percentage of people that will avoid the jab might be much higher than what you have in the USA or EU. Anyway I am sorry I didn't share an article about what I mentioned, I thought it was known enough to not need an article. (I might say the same about your numbers) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/info:doi/10.13...

adriancr 5y ago
> Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts. The journal you reference studies Marek's disease in chicken. The vaccine does not prevent transmission (which farmers found good enough). As such, all vaccinated chicken can get the virus but dont get sick and still transmit it. That is irrlevant since, its a study on chicken, with a vaccine that wouldn't be approved for humans. Also all vaccines stop transmission with 90-95% or less for poorer vaccines (you are 95% less likely to catch it) All the study shows is the need to vaccinate everyone and extinguish the virus same as polio before it evolves. As for numbers source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-09/biontech-pfizer-could-have-capacity-for-3-billion-doses-in-2022 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-09/biontech-... As for difficulty distributing vaccines in Africa. Where there's a need people will figure out a way.
- codeflow2202 5y ago
  The fact that it's about chickens is irrelevant. This is about how viruses evolve when confronted with an immune system. But you are correct that the lower the transmission rate from vaccinated people, the lower the risk of enhanced viruses. But your 95% is debatable. The number goes drastically down depending on which vaccine you use, the new strains, and probably time. My point is that the myth that unvaccinated people are the part of the population creating enhanced variants is false. Before the vaccination propaganda started it was known to everyone that isolating the sick tends to forces the virus to evolve in less dangerous strains.
  - adriancr 5y ago
    > My point is that the myth that unvaccinated people are the part of the population creating enhanced variants is false. Incorrect. By logic, 95% (or whatever % you want) of the vaccinated population will not catch virus. As such, virus cannot evolve in them. Logical right? This is what they study says. > ... anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission ... The vaccines we have PREVENT transmission with various effectiveness. The vaccine in study did NOT. Since viruses could still infect vaccinated chicken, it evolved.
    - codeflow2202 5y ago
      The numbers are between 95% of Pfizer at his best and 50% of Sinovac. And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. But the final point I was trying to pass is that isolation of the sick will slowly push the virus to evolve in more contagious but less risky variants. Undetected infections in the vaccinated might cause strains that evade the vaccine and possibly be more dangerous (because of the lack of symptoms and isolation.)
      - adriancr 5y ago
        > And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw
        codeflow2202 5y ago
        You must be kidding me. This is proof that you pro covid mrna therapy are just mindless news consumers. Have you ever spent a second reading articles or watching the data about what you believe? tot cases/1M pop -> usa 104525 india 22200 deaths/1M pop -> usa 1872 india 295 There is no single country in asia that did as bad as the USA in the deaths department. What's now your next extravagant excuse? That the usa has been overcounting its deaths to scare its people into covid mrna therpies?

adriancr 5y ago

> Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts. The journal you reference studies Marek's disease in chicken. The vaccine does not prevent transmission (which farmers found good enough). As such, all vaccinated chicken can get the virus but dont get sick and still transmit it. That is irrlevant since, its a study on chicken, with a vaccine that wouldn't be approved for humans. Also all vaccines stop transmission with 90-95% or less for poorer vaccines (you are 95% less likely to catch it) All the study shows is the need to vaccinate everyone and extinguish the virus same as polio before it evolves. As for numbers source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-09/biontech-pfizer-could-have-capacity-for-3-billion-doses-in-2022 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-09/biontech-... As for difficulty distributing vaccines in Africa. Where there's a need people will figure out a way.

codeflow2202 5y ago
The fact that it's about chickens is irrelevant. This is about how viruses evolve when confronted with an immune system. But you are correct that the lower the transmission rate from vaccinated people, the lower the risk of enhanced viruses. But your 95% is debatable. The number goes drastically down depending on which vaccine you use, the new strains, and probably time. My point is that the myth that unvaccinated people are the part of the population creating enhanced variants is false. Before the vaccination propaganda started it was known to everyone that isolating the sick tends to forces the virus to evolve in less dangerous strains.
- adriancr 5y ago
  > My point is that the myth that unvaccinated people are the part of the population creating enhanced variants is false. Incorrect. By logic, 95% (or whatever % you want) of the vaccinated population will not catch virus. As such, virus cannot evolve in them. Logical right? This is what they study says. > ... anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission ... The vaccines we have PREVENT transmission with various effectiveness. The vaccine in study did NOT. Since viruses could still infect vaccinated chicken, it evolved.
  - codeflow2202 5y ago
    The numbers are between 95% of Pfizer at his best and 50% of Sinovac. And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. But the final point I was trying to pass is that isolation of the sick will slowly push the virus to evolve in more contagious but less risky variants. Undetected infections in the vaccinated might cause strains that evade the vaccine and possibly be more dangerous (because of the lack of symptoms and isolation.)
    - adriancr 5y ago
      > And we are not vaccinating to avoid a pandemic, we are doing it during the pandemic making the risk of it happening much higher. I bet you would like to go back in time and tell the people that vaccinated against polio that they were doing it wrong too? We are vaccinating to stop the pandemic. India is an example what happens without vaccines btw
      - codeflow2202 5y ago
        You must be kidding me. This is proof that you pro covid mrna therapy are just mindless news consumers. Have you ever spent a second reading articles or watching the data about what you believe? tot cases/1M pop -> usa 104525 india 22200 deaths/1M pop -> usa 1872 india 295 There is no single country in asia that did as bad as the USA in the deaths department. What's now your next extravagant excuse? That the usa has been overcounting its deaths to scare its people into covid mrna therpies?