3 ms·

Can countries like France just fine Google for something they come up with whenever they want some more money? Seems like they’re being taxed.

Bayart 5y ago
That might be the only way to extract money from Google and others short of leaving the EU, yes, considering they don't pay any taxes while extracting massive amounts of value from the country.
- tpush 5y ago
  > [...] considering they don't pay any taxes while extracting massive amounts of value from the country. The EU should talk to Ireland then. EU countries are the anti-social tax havens here that encourage international companies to not pay taxes.
  - josefx 5y ago
    You know the world would be a weird place if three people robbed a bank and you only prosecute one while the other two loudly argue over finding a new fall guy for the next robbery.
    - tpush 5y ago
      That analogy obviously doesn't work at all. Here's the thing: On one hand you have companies trying to minimize taxes any (legal) way they can, and on the other you have countries saying "Here you can (legally) minimize your taxes!". Any rational thought process is going to conclude that curbing #2 is the only realistic option to tackle that problem; see the global 15% minimum corp tax. That's why your analogy doesn't work: Here 'prosecuting one the 3 bank robbers' actually prevents further robberies, and is also the only practical way to prevent any further robberies.
      - josefx 5y ago
        > Here's the thing: On one hand you have companies trying to minimize taxes any (legal) way they can, and on the other you have countries saying "Here you can (legally) minimize your taxes!". Problem is at least with the Ireland case was that there were backroom deals that no one else could be aware of when taxes should be applied equally to everyone. In fact that last part is kinda required by various trade agreements which is the reason most European countries could get so pissed of at Ireland, not the low taxes, but the secrecy in how it applied tax laws to specific heavyweights. Ireland: Nothing wrong here, the plans where publicly available in a disused lavatory labeled beware of the leopard. Everyone with a direct line to our finance minister could have asked and we would have told them how to apply. Totally nothing illegal going on here.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    >The EU should talk to Ireland then. The problem with the way the EU is structured, is that it's very easy for one or two countries to put their foot down and keep the status quo. See what's happened with Poland and Hungary. But you can also see things like Germany quietly sabotaging any defense program and anything happening outside of NATO or turning energy transition programs into a joke. I think it led us in an absolutely dreadful situation strategically, economics included. Britain might have the last word on this one.
fmajid 5y ago
They had passed a special tax law to go after Big Tech’s dodgy tax avoidance schemes. It was suspended after Joe Biden’s worldwide minimum corporate tax law, which achieves the same ends (and is not myopically fixated on tech, when IKEA or Starbucks have been doing the same for decades). This is different, it’s rent-seeking news conglomerates like Murdoch successfully lobbying the EU to extend copyright to cover news snippets. Sadly France was one of the countries that pushed the most for this to happen at the EU level, so it is not surprising it would be the first to use the new law as a cudgel.
CJefferson 5y ago
Yes, countries are soverign, and can (in many cases) do what they like. You can in principle go to a group like the WTO. Google could of course also just stop operating in France.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  So what stops countries like France just stripping all the assets of Google that they can access from France? If they can fine 500m why not fine a billion? What limits them if they don’t care? It’s mostly Americans’ money - not their citizens. I don’t understand why Google doesn’t just take their ball and go home if the French are going to treat them like this. Why operate in a market where they'll bleed you whenever they want?
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Google doesn't pay much taxes in France, the fine is probably lower than what they should have paid is they weren't cheating the system already. This is fair game.

Bayart 5y ago

That might be the only way to extract money from Google and others short of leaving the EU, yes, considering they don't pay any taxes while extracting massive amounts of value from the country.

tpush 5y ago
> [...] considering they don't pay any taxes while extracting massive amounts of value from the country. The EU should talk to Ireland then. EU countries are the anti-social tax havens here that encourage international companies to not pay taxes.
- josefx 5y ago
  You know the world would be a weird place if three people robbed a bank and you only prosecute one while the other two loudly argue over finding a new fall guy for the next robbery.
  - tpush 5y ago
    That analogy obviously doesn't work at all. Here's the thing: On one hand you have companies trying to minimize taxes any (legal) way they can, and on the other you have countries saying "Here you can (legally) minimize your taxes!". Any rational thought process is going to conclude that curbing #2 is the only realistic option to tackle that problem; see the global 15% minimum corp tax. That's why your analogy doesn't work: Here 'prosecuting one the 3 bank robbers' actually prevents further robberies, and is also the only practical way to prevent any further robberies.
    - josefx 5y ago
      > Here's the thing: On one hand you have companies trying to minimize taxes any (legal) way they can, and on the other you have countries saying "Here you can (legally) minimize your taxes!". Problem is at least with the Ireland case was that there were backroom deals that no one else could be aware of when taxes should be applied equally to everyone. In fact that last part is kinda required by various trade agreements which is the reason most European countries could get so pissed of at Ireland, not the low taxes, but the secrecy in how it applied tax laws to specific heavyweights. Ireland: Nothing wrong here, the plans where publicly available in a disused lavatory labeled beware of the leopard. Everyone with a direct line to our finance minister could have asked and we would have told them how to apply. Totally nothing illegal going on here.
- Bayart 5y ago
  >The EU should talk to Ireland then. The problem with the way the EU is structured, is that it's very easy for one or two countries to put their foot down and keep the status quo. See what's happened with Poland and Hungary. But you can also see things like Germany quietly sabotaging any defense program and anything happening outside of NATO or turning energy transition programs into a joke. I think it led us in an absolutely dreadful situation strategically, economics included. Britain might have the last word on this one.

fmajid 5y ago

They had passed a special tax law to go after Big Tech’s dodgy tax avoidance schemes. It was suspended after Joe Biden’s worldwide minimum corporate tax law, which achieves the same ends (and is not myopically fixated on tech, when IKEA or Starbucks have been doing the same for decades). This is different, it’s rent-seeking news conglomerates like Murdoch successfully lobbying the EU to extend copyright to cover news snippets. Sadly France was one of the countries that pushed the most for this to happen at the EU level, so it is not surprising it would be the first to use the new law as a cudgel.

CJefferson 5y ago

Yes, countries are soverign, and can (in many cases) do what they like. You can in principle go to a group like the WTO. Google could of course also just stop operating in France.

chrisseaton 5y ago
So what stops countries like France just stripping all the assets of Google that they can access from France? If they can fine 500m why not fine a billion? What limits them if they don’t care? It’s mostly Americans’ money - not their citizens. I don’t understand why Google doesn’t just take their ball and go home if the French are going to treat them like this. Why operate in a market where they'll bleed you whenever they want?
- Zababa 5y ago
  Google doesn't pay much taxes in France, the fine is probably lower than what they should have paid is they weren't cheating the system already. This is fair game.