3 ms·

> but with a larger population, any adverse effects are likely to be noticed. With time. Not every problem shows up immediately. I'm vaccinated but I respect

> but with a larger population, any adverse effects are likely to be noticed. With time. Not every problem shows up immediately. I'm vaccinated but I respect some people who decided against it. My logic is easy enough to explain: the virus have bigger known side effects than the vaccine and I have personally no reason to belive that there won't be even more and bigger unknown unknowns with the virus than with the vaccine. Not blindly trusting governments, media and big pharma however doesn't sound crazy to me. After all the worst crimes and crimes against humanity haven't been done by catholic inquisitors or the armed neighbor next door but by governments, and typically not in active war but in steady state after occupation or even typically by the country people belong to. As for media: how anyone here can trust anyone of them blindly is beyond me. I actively support some of them but I always try to ask myself what really happened.

Nursie 5y ago
> Not blindly trusting governments, media and big pharma however doesn't sound crazy to me. > As for media: how anyone here can trust anyone of them blindly is beyond me. I think this is a problem in our current society, rightly or wrongly a lot of people don't trust government or many mainstream information resources, but unfortunately instead of becoming rationally sceptic, a lot go over to blatant misinformation and conspiracy.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  > I think this is a problem in our current society, rightly or wrongly a lot of people don't trust government or many mainstream information resources, but unfortunately instead of becoming rationally sceptic, a lot go over to blatant misinformation and conspiracy. Yep. As I have tried to explain one of my friends: even if you assume every official is prone to lying something can be read from their words and actions. When I see doctors who have 5-7 more years of studies in the field than me lining up for the vaccine that is a useful signal. Same with the military and the politicians. Then there is Ivermectin who according to some could have eradicated Covid-19 if it wasn't for Big Pharmas stranglehold on media and politicians. Well in that case COVID-19 should be eradicated in Cuba, Iran and Russia now as none of those suffers the same stranglehold from Big Pharma. etc etc.
  - forcry 5y ago
    > When I see doctors who have 5-7 more years of studies in the field than me lining up for the vaccine that is a useful signal. Let me share some similar signals that I see. Let us talk about the VAERS database. I wonder why is it not made in such a way that it can collect high quality data? Like for example, make strict mandates to the healthcare people to document each and every AEFI that they notice. But right now, the covid vaccines are not even in the list of vaccines whos events are reportable under law [1]. And [2] where they choose not to enforce data collections in name of promoting vaccinations. So when the authorities opt not to collect data, it is a big red signal for me. >Well in that case COVID-19 should be eradicated in Cuba, Iran and Russia now as none of those suffers the same stranglehold from Big Pharma. Well I guess anywhere in the world, the authorities will be taking a big risk by going against W.H.O. Not sure, just something that could be the case..Can you show some citation to show Ivermectin was being used in these places and found to be of no use? [1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERS_Table_of_Reportable_Events_Following_Vaccination.pdf https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERS_Table_of_Reportable_Events_... [2] https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#worker https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#worker
    - Nursie 5y ago
      > I wonder why is it not made in such a way that it can collect high quality data? Because it's made in such a way that it can collect all data from self-reporting as well. It's meant to be a tool find signals in the noise, not be restrictive or definitive. > But right now, the covid vaccines are not even in the list of vaccines whos events are reportable under law That list seems to be things which are legally mandated reporting - "In addition, healthcare professionals are encouraged to report any clinically significant or unexpected events" That doesn't mean other things can't be or aren't being reported. > And [2] where they choose not to enforce data collections in name of promoting vaccinations. What part of that link says that? Hard to tell. > Well I guess anywhere in the world, the authorities will be taking a big risk by going against W.H.O. Why? What sort of risk do you think it might be? What sort of power do you think the WHO has to suppress effective treatments in countries around the world? Ivermectin, like HCQ before it, appears to have been latched onto by the antivax crowd with no evidence to support it. We do have some effective treatments now, like tocilizumab and dexamethsone, supported with good clinical evidence.

Nursie 5y ago

> Not blindly trusting governments, media and big pharma however doesn't sound crazy to me. > As for media: how anyone here can trust anyone of them blindly is beyond me. I think this is a problem in our current society, rightly or wrongly a lot of people don't trust government or many mainstream information resources, but unfortunately instead of becoming rationally sceptic, a lot go over to blatant misinformation and conspiracy.

skinkestek 5y ago
> I think this is a problem in our current society, rightly or wrongly a lot of people don't trust government or many mainstream information resources, but unfortunately instead of becoming rationally sceptic, a lot go over to blatant misinformation and conspiracy. Yep. As I have tried to explain one of my friends: even if you assume every official is prone to lying something can be read from their words and actions. When I see doctors who have 5-7 more years of studies in the field than me lining up for the vaccine that is a useful signal. Same with the military and the politicians. Then there is Ivermectin who according to some could have eradicated Covid-19 if it wasn't for Big Pharmas stranglehold on media and politicians. Well in that case COVID-19 should be eradicated in Cuba, Iran and Russia now as none of those suffers the same stranglehold from Big Pharma. etc etc.
- forcry 5y ago
  > When I see doctors who have 5-7 more years of studies in the field than me lining up for the vaccine that is a useful signal. Let me share some similar signals that I see. Let us talk about the VAERS database. I wonder why is it not made in such a way that it can collect high quality data? Like for example, make strict mandates to the healthcare people to document each and every AEFI that they notice. But right now, the covid vaccines are not even in the list of vaccines whos events are reportable under law [1]. And [2] where they choose not to enforce data collections in name of promoting vaccinations. So when the authorities opt not to collect data, it is a big red signal for me. >Well in that case COVID-19 should be eradicated in Cuba, Iran and Russia now as none of those suffers the same stranglehold from Big Pharma. Well I guess anywhere in the world, the authorities will be taking a big risk by going against W.H.O. Not sure, just something that could be the case..Can you show some citation to show Ivermectin was being used in these places and found to be of no use? [1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERS_Table_of_Reportable_Events_Following_Vaccination.pdf https://vaers.hhs.gov/docs/VAERS_Table_of_Reportable_Events_... [2] https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#worker https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#worker
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > I wonder why is it not made in such a way that it can collect high quality data? Because it's made in such a way that it can collect all data from self-reporting as well. It's meant to be a tool find signals in the noise, not be restrictive or definitive. > But right now, the covid vaccines are not even in the list of vaccines whos events are reportable under law That list seems to be things which are legally mandated reporting - "In addition, healthcare professionals are encouraged to report any clinically significant or unexpected events" That doesn't mean other things can't be or aren't being reported. > And [2] where they choose not to enforce data collections in name of promoting vaccinations. What part of that link says that? Hard to tell. > Well I guess anywhere in the world, the authorities will be taking a big risk by going against W.H.O. Why? What sort of risk do you think it might be? What sort of power do you think the WHO has to suppress effective treatments in countries around the world? Ivermectin, like HCQ before it, appears to have been latched onto by the antivax crowd with no evidence to support it. We do have some effective treatments now, like tocilizumab and dexamethsone, supported with good clinical evidence.