23 ms·

Unfortunately it's not simple enough to agree "i choose to have kids, i pay the price, i reap the rewards of my parental investment, leave me alone". I am a fa

Unfortunately it's not simple enough to agree "i choose to have kids, i pay the price, i reap the rewards of my parental investment, leave me alone". I am a father who was lucky to have a paid paternal leave. I am also a former freelancer who is happy to take care of himself in all situations. I agree that this sort of benefits which you reap by choice is controversial; i don't see what I'd possibly consider a "fair" amount of benefits here. But I can't agree that cancelling it would make it fair. All societies typically provide various parenting benefits, but then society also reaps the benefits of having the kids - up to drafting them into the armed forces and sending them to war. Now, some countries don't have mandatory conscription nowadays, but it is not unheard of for countries to introduce it at critical times.

Siira 5y ago
To summarize, you think it’s okay for the gov to subsidize people’s children so that they have an unspecified claim on them up to sending them to a violent death. Very humane business, having a monopoly on violence.
- andrey_utkin 5y ago
  I don't like it but I have little hope that the humanity will abolish the "appoint others to die for the tribe" business anytime soon (within my lifetime, or in 1000 years, or at all). Coercion is still such a powerful tool in hands of so many, pervasive on all levels, no way we're going to abolish it. Not sure whether we've made any progress historically; maybe? I guess we'll see the abolition of animals farming globally around the same time. This would be the expression of humanity's "sentiment" against coercion towards the weaker in general. I believe this may happen but not very soon. (I am myself a meat eater.)
  - Siira 5y ago
    They could pay the market price for soldiers. It’s not dying for others that’s the problem, it’s the forceful dying for others.
    - andrey_utkin 5y ago
      I agree that is the deal I'd like to live with. The problem is that most of countries don't offer such a deal, and are not rushing to change. Powers won't give away their coercive power, the populace doesn't want to pay the price of fighting for the transformation.
  - ixacto 5y ago
    We have already realized that it is unprofitable to go to war. What would happen if the USA and PRC China got into a hot war over the ROC Taiwan? That would destroy the economy. Much easier to just insult one another and play games with currency manipulation and tariffs. Capitalism and the global markets interconnectedness will save us from going to war.
    - lurquer 5y ago
      > We have already realized that it is unprofitable to go to war. Who is this ‘WE’ to whom you refer? War is immensely profitable to many companies and individuals. When those interests have the reins of power, there will be war.

Siira 5y ago

To summarize, you think it’s okay for the gov to subsidize people’s children so that they have an unspecified claim on them up to sending them to a violent death. Very humane business, having a monopoly on violence.

andrey_utkin 5y ago
I don't like it but I have little hope that the humanity will abolish the "appoint others to die for the tribe" business anytime soon (within my lifetime, or in 1000 years, or at all). Coercion is still such a powerful tool in hands of so many, pervasive on all levels, no way we're going to abolish it. Not sure whether we've made any progress historically; maybe? I guess we'll see the abolition of animals farming globally around the same time. This would be the expression of humanity's "sentiment" against coercion towards the weaker in general. I believe this may happen but not very soon. (I am myself a meat eater.)
- Siira 5y ago
  They could pay the market price for soldiers. It’s not dying for others that’s the problem, it’s the forceful dying for others.
  - andrey_utkin 5y ago
    I agree that is the deal I'd like to live with. The problem is that most of countries don't offer such a deal, and are not rushing to change. Powers won't give away their coercive power, the populace doesn't want to pay the price of fighting for the transformation.
- ixacto 5y ago
  We have already realized that it is unprofitable to go to war. What would happen if the USA and PRC China got into a hot war over the ROC Taiwan? That would destroy the economy. Much easier to just insult one another and play games with currency manipulation and tariffs. Capitalism and the global markets interconnectedness will save us from going to war.
  - lurquer 5y ago
    > We have already realized that it is unprofitable to go to war. Who is this ‘WE’ to whom you refer? War is immensely profitable to many companies and individuals. When those interests have the reins of power, there will be war.