4 ms·

Christians of every era have their political goals too. And of course, claimed to own peace, equality and justice. And there is no doubt a political core to ea

Christians of every era have their political goals too. And of course, claimed to own peace, equality and justice. And there is no doubt a political core to each identity banner 'BLM'. The question is whether the mass movement and the institutional and cultural mass are even 'aware of' let alone 'coordinating for' these political ambitions. Clearly they are not. The culture of these projects ARE these projects and they are fundamentally demands for a 'theatre of identity' to be created. Contrast this with union activity, the temperance movement, civil rights era -- etx. These are political projects whose adearents aim towards them. This 'identity-fist politics' is not a politics; its a religious awakening for a new era of identity. You will no doubt find genuine politics going on, and evangelists like Colbert appearing to champion them -- but this isnt a political awakening. It isnt the 20s or 60s. Its the 19th C. and what we have is a new era of religious identity and new claims to who owns virtue-- across all of society. Your 'list of demands' is just another Lutheran political gesture -- no one standing alongside you has read them. They are there to demand respect for their newly minted identities.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Christians of every era have their political goals too. And of course, claimed to own peace, equality and justice. Christianity has been fairly expressly political for most of its history post-Constantine, and the divisions between different Christian subgroups have often turned more on the political divisions than any notional theological divides. > The question is whether the mass movement and the institutional and cultural mass are even ‘aware of’ let alone ‘coordinating for’ these political ambitions. And the answer is, quite clearly, that yes, they are. > Contrast this with union activity, the temperance movement, civil rights era – etx. And…what? I’m rather deeply familiar with all of those — while I’m currently working in technology, this is actually the domain that I studied deeply. The division you are drawing is absolutely without any substance whatsoever. > This ‘identity-fist politics’ is not a politics; its a religious awakening for a new era of identity. That is no more true than it was of the rise of labor unionism or the civil rights movements, which had an equally “religious” (and quite often overtly religious, as well) character…and an equal focus of political objectives. The dichotomy you are trying to draw is bogus. > You will no doubt find genuine politics going on, and evangelists like Colbert appearing to champion them – but this isnt a political awakening. It isnt the 20s or 60s. Well, sure, if I were comparing the modern BLM movement, for instance, to the Civil Rights movement, I would compare it more to the mid-1950s than the 1960s. But that’s not a difference of degree of political nature of the movement, but degree of political leverage that comes from successful mobilization around a broad concept that brings the power to not merely have a variety of competing political demands within a movement subordinate to the broad problem statement, but actually be in a position to have the leverage to be in a position to implement them. M4BL itself fairly explicitly acknowledges this (without the historical comparison): “Our movement and Black communities are not currently in a position to set agendas to scale, control the institutions that affect our lives, or create mechanisms to mitigate harm. This assessment should not be interpreted as a failure of our social movements, but it does expose a critical gap. We have created a popular strategy to guide us through the next five years; it is rooted in transformative goals that can impact the millions of Black people looking for direction and leadership in this moment. Chiefly, Black governance and ultimately positioning our communities to set agendas sits at the heart of M4BL Project 2024: Black Power Rising.” [https://m4bl.org/black-power-rising/ https://m4bl.org/black-power-rising/] > They are there to demand respect for their newly minted identities. The idea that black identity is a novel development of the recent activist movement is amusing, but ludicrously false; even the broad outline of the substantive political demands aren’t, mostly, new. All that is new is the sense of urgency for political and institutional change change.
- mjburgess 5y ago
  You're the one talking about BLM. You're the one talking about "Black". I happily said "anti-vax" was an identity marker. The relevant comment here, and context, is the use of the term "discrimination" by the right wing. And indeed, see for example, the recent CIA advert using "equality, diversity" and various identity markers. The unifying phenomenon isn't political -- even if we take BLM itself to be a purely political manifestation. The unifying phenomenon has to account for the alt-right alongside BLM. What is occurring ACROSS the political spectrum is a new civic religious awakening. This fervour you have, as a political hobbyist, is at base an identity fervour. Much more akin to a religious fervour. You are commenting on a website advertising your identity. You aren't on any barricades. The US, and to some degree the west, is undergoing a religious revival disguised as a political movement. It may contain them ("BLM", "Capital Riot", etc.) -- but the social transformation is one purely in the space of "signification" (identity). The capital rioters, and the blm activists -- the TV evangelicals (fox, colbert) -- the CIA with its "diversity" -- celebrities with their metoo opportunism -- your local MegaCrop with its "heartfelt commitments" to the new dogma. This is a religion. It isnt a politics. It exists purely in the space of identity, signification, public professing. Trump is the perfect non-political president in this style: a person elected to do nothing political, and everything "religious" -- to be seen to be saying, not to be seen doing. This is all of the same kind: the new activist left, the alt right, the CIA and Google. It's a religious awakening bordering on a hysteria.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Christians of every era have their political goals too. And of course, claimed to own peace, equality and justice. Christianity has been fairly expressly political for most of its history post-Constantine, and the divisions between different Christian subgroups have often turned more on the political divisions than any notional theological divides. > The question is whether the mass movement and the institutional and cultural mass are even ‘aware of’ let alone ‘coordinating for’ these political ambitions. And the answer is, quite clearly, that yes, they are. > Contrast this with union activity, the temperance movement, civil rights era – etx. And…what? I’m rather deeply familiar with all of those — while I’m currently working in technology, this is actually the domain that I studied deeply. The division you are drawing is absolutely without any substance whatsoever. > This ‘identity-fist politics’ is not a politics; its a religious awakening for a new era of identity. That is no more true than it was of the rise of labor unionism or the civil rights movements, which had an equally “religious” (and quite often overtly religious, as well) character…and an equal focus of political objectives. The dichotomy you are trying to draw is bogus. > You will no doubt find genuine politics going on, and evangelists like Colbert appearing to champion them – but this isnt a political awakening. It isnt the 20s or 60s. Well, sure, if I were comparing the modern BLM movement, for instance, to the Civil Rights movement, I would compare it more to the mid-1950s than the 1960s. But that’s not a difference of degree of political nature of the movement, but degree of political leverage that comes from successful mobilization around a broad concept that brings the power to not merely have a variety of competing political demands within a movement subordinate to the broad problem statement, but actually be in a position to have the leverage to be in a position to implement them. M4BL itself fairly explicitly acknowledges this (without the historical comparison): “Our movement and Black communities are not currently in a position to set agendas to scale, control the institutions that affect our lives, or create mechanisms to mitigate harm. This assessment should not be interpreted as a failure of our social movements, but it does expose a critical gap. We have created a popular strategy to guide us through the next five years; it is rooted in transformative goals that can impact the millions of Black people looking for direction and leadership in this moment. Chiefly, Black governance and ultimately positioning our communities to set agendas sits at the heart of M4BL Project 2024: Black Power Rising.” [https://m4bl.org/black-power-rising/ https://m4bl.org/black-power-rising/] > They are there to demand respect for their newly minted identities. The idea that black identity is a novel development of the recent activist movement is amusing, but ludicrously false; even the broad outline of the substantive political demands aren’t, mostly, new. All that is new is the sense of urgency for political and institutional change change.

mjburgess 5y ago
You're the one talking about BLM. You're the one talking about "Black". I happily said "anti-vax" was an identity marker. The relevant comment here, and context, is the use of the term "discrimination" by the right wing. And indeed, see for example, the recent CIA advert using "equality, diversity" and various identity markers. The unifying phenomenon isn't political -- even if we take BLM itself to be a purely political manifestation. The unifying phenomenon has to account for the alt-right alongside BLM. What is occurring ACROSS the political spectrum is a new civic religious awakening. This fervour you have, as a political hobbyist, is at base an identity fervour. Much more akin to a religious fervour. You are commenting on a website advertising your identity. You aren't on any barricades. The US, and to some degree the west, is undergoing a religious revival disguised as a political movement. It may contain them ("BLM", "Capital Riot", etc.) -- but the social transformation is one purely in the space of "signification" (identity). The capital rioters, and the blm activists -- the TV evangelicals (fox, colbert) -- the CIA with its "diversity" -- celebrities with their metoo opportunism -- your local MegaCrop with its "heartfelt commitments" to the new dogma. This is a religion. It isnt a politics. It exists purely in the space of identity, signification, public professing. Trump is the perfect non-political president in this style: a person elected to do nothing political, and everything "religious" -- to be seen to be saying, not to be seen doing. This is all of the same kind: the new activist left, the alt right, the CIA and Google. It's a religious awakening bordering on a hysteria.