7 ms·

> Secondly, I'm getting the COVID vaccine not because they believe that there is a high risk of getting serious COVID myself, but to help others -- some at-risk

> Secondly, I'm getting the COVID vaccine not because they believe that there is a high risk of getting serious COVID myself, but to help others -- some at-risk people can't get the vaccine at all, and immune-suppresed people are still at significant risk post-vaccine (although still lower risk than without). People not getting the vaccine who are able are being incredibly selfish. They are exercising the opposite of personal responsibility. It's your personal responsibility not the harm those around you as much as possible. I know they are mostly ignorant, but frankly I find them to be disgusting people.

AYBABTME 5y ago
I think a lot of people just lack the education and context that you have, and so don't come to the same conclusion. Just 25min ago, I was in favor of getting vaccinated myself, but didn't understand why I should care about other people getting vaccinated too. And I'm not a bigot (I hope) or a person more ignorant than the average. If you believe this to be true, I think we can agree that it's probably fair to at least assume ignorance instead of vileness to the vast majority of vaccine-skeptic folks. Especially if you consider the social landscape in the USA, where having beliefs misaligned with your in-group's is extremely damaging. It doesn't leave a lot of room for people to exercise independent thought and climb out of their ignorance.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  I don't disagree with you that it's a lack of education and context, but I personally don't accept that as an excuse. Information about vaccination is totally ubiquitous. Being ignorant of this is just not okay. So no after a year and half of inundation of information explaining these basic fact I honestly am disgusted that people still hold these beliefs. I basically lose faith in society because of it. As an aside, I never called you (or anyone else I was referring to) a bigot.
  - AYBABTME 5y ago
    > As an aside, I never called you (or anyone else I was referring to) a bigot. I didn't mean to claim that you did, but after re-reading the two sentences, I can see how it could be read as such. Sorry for the confusion!
forcry 5y ago
> It's your personal responsibility not the harm those around you as much as possible Sure. But there is also a bigger responsibility to oneself. To not do things that might harm themselves. So with that conflicting forces, it becomes a matter of opinion and perception. So it becomes no longer selfish, and just common sense.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  > So with that conflicting forces, it becomes a matter of opinion and perception. So it becomes no longer selfish, and just common sense. All information points the disease being worse than the vaccine. It's not common sense to avoid it. It's highly irrational. If people are really concerned with not harming themselves, they _will_ get vaccinated.
  - forcry 5y ago
    >All information points the disease being worse than the vaccine. No, at some point you are trusting some external entities. You trust the information because you trust the entities that provide it. When you say that someone else is irrational, you are doing that because that person does not share your trust. And to that person, in all probability, what you are doing might be irrational. In the end, I think no one have the right to impose their standard of trust on to anyone else.
    - CogitoCogito 5y ago
      You don't have the right to simply ignore all the research going into this and be treated seriously. But I guess believe whatever you want if it makes you feel better.
      - forcry 5y ago
        >You don't have the right to simply ignore all the research going into this and be treated seriously. Replace "research" with "stuff a bunch of people you believe say", and the situation will become much more clear.
johnisgood 5y ago
It's people's personal responsibility to not harm themselves, too.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Indeed, and as the vaccines do very little harm compared to the virus, it's definitely a good thing to get vaccinated. Especially as we are now getting the fuller picture that covid can lead to last lung and brain damage.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    I am not so sure. Some side-effects do take time to manifest. They just started talking about how teens get heart issues from it and so forth. We did not know this before either, nor did we know about the AstraZeneca's blood clots. Some take longer time though. We simply do not know. Anyone leaning towards "it is safe" and "it is not safe" is silly, because we just simply have no idea, you cannot claim either for certain. > Especially as we are now getting the fuller picture that covid can lead to last lung and brain damage. Yes, we are just now getting the fuller picture of COVID-19 that it can lead to this and that. The very same can happen to the vaccines, and it is actually happening to some of these vaccines.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      > They just started talking about how teenage boys get enlarged heart from it and so forth Inflammation/swelling of the heart, not enlarging, very rare given the number of shots that have been rolled out, and people recover pretty quickly. Definitely a concern, not a showstopper. > We did not know this before either, nor did we know about the AstraZeneca's blood clots. Again, an incredibly low risk and less risk than harm from the virus. > we just simply have no idea. This is not really true, we have a ton of data from this vaccine and from previous ones that can inform our expectations.
      - johnisgood 5y ago
        Sorry. I mean this, and this happens to children: > A CDC committee will hear about reports of 300 cases of the heart enlargement that have happened after children were vaccinated against COVID-19. The ailment is fairly common and easily treatable. The heart inflammation happens too, though. --- > Again, an incredibly low risk and less risk than harm from the virus. But that is not the point. The point is that we did not know this would be the case. Other side-effects may come up as time goes on. > This is not really true, we have a ton of data from this vaccine and from previous ones that can inform our expectations. Again, are you talking about the mRNA vaccines? I asked the question twice with regarding to it so I am not going to do it again here.

AYBABTME 5y ago

I think a lot of people just lack the education and context that you have, and so don't come to the same conclusion. Just 25min ago, I was in favor of getting vaccinated myself, but didn't understand why I should care about other people getting vaccinated too. And I'm not a bigot (I hope) or a person more ignorant than the average. If you believe this to be true, I think we can agree that it's probably fair to at least assume ignorance instead of vileness to the vast majority of vaccine-skeptic folks. Especially if you consider the social landscape in the USA, where having beliefs misaligned with your in-group's is extremely damaging. It doesn't leave a lot of room for people to exercise independent thought and climb out of their ignorance.

CogitoCogito 5y ago
I don't disagree with you that it's a lack of education and context, but I personally don't accept that as an excuse. Information about vaccination is totally ubiquitous. Being ignorant of this is just not okay. So no after a year and half of inundation of information explaining these basic fact I honestly am disgusted that people still hold these beliefs. I basically lose faith in society because of it. As an aside, I never called you (or anyone else I was referring to) a bigot.
- AYBABTME 5y ago
  > As an aside, I never called you (or anyone else I was referring to) a bigot. I didn't mean to claim that you did, but after re-reading the two sentences, I can see how it could be read as such. Sorry for the confusion!

forcry 5y ago

> It's your personal responsibility not the harm those around you as much as possible Sure. But there is also a bigger responsibility to oneself. To not do things that might harm themselves. So with that conflicting forces, it becomes a matter of opinion and perception. So it becomes no longer selfish, and just common sense.

CogitoCogito 5y ago
> So with that conflicting forces, it becomes a matter of opinion and perception. So it becomes no longer selfish, and just common sense. All information points the disease being worse than the vaccine. It's not common sense to avoid it. It's highly irrational. If people are really concerned with not harming themselves, they _will_ get vaccinated.
- forcry 5y ago
  >All information points the disease being worse than the vaccine. No, at some point you are trusting some external entities. You trust the information because you trust the entities that provide it. When you say that someone else is irrational, you are doing that because that person does not share your trust. And to that person, in all probability, what you are doing might be irrational. In the end, I think no one have the right to impose their standard of trust on to anyone else.
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    You don't have the right to simply ignore all the research going into this and be treated seriously. But I guess believe whatever you want if it makes you feel better.
    - forcry 5y ago
      >You don't have the right to simply ignore all the research going into this and be treated seriously. Replace "research" with "stuff a bunch of people you believe say", and the situation will become much more clear.

johnisgood 5y ago

It's people's personal responsibility to not harm themselves, too.

Nursie 5y ago
Indeed, and as the vaccines do very little harm compared to the virus, it's definitely a good thing to get vaccinated. Especially as we are now getting the fuller picture that covid can lead to last lung and brain damage.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  I am not so sure. Some side-effects do take time to manifest. They just started talking about how teens get heart issues from it and so forth. We did not know this before either, nor did we know about the AstraZeneca's blood clots. Some take longer time though. We simply do not know. Anyone leaning towards "it is safe" and "it is not safe" is silly, because we just simply have no idea, you cannot claim either for certain. > Especially as we are now getting the fuller picture that covid can lead to last lung and brain damage. Yes, we are just now getting the fuller picture of COVID-19 that it can lead to this and that. The very same can happen to the vaccines, and it is actually happening to some of these vaccines.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > They just started talking about how teenage boys get enlarged heart from it and so forth Inflammation/swelling of the heart, not enlarging, very rare given the number of shots that have been rolled out, and people recover pretty quickly. Definitely a concern, not a showstopper. > We did not know this before either, nor did we know about the AstraZeneca's blood clots. Again, an incredibly low risk and less risk than harm from the virus. > we just simply have no idea. This is not really true, we have a ton of data from this vaccine and from previous ones that can inform our expectations.
    - johnisgood 5y ago
      Sorry. I mean this, and this happens to children: > A CDC committee will hear about reports of 300 cases of the heart enlargement that have happened after children were vaccinated against COVID-19. The ailment is fairly common and easily treatable. The heart inflammation happens too, though. --- > Again, an incredibly low risk and less risk than harm from the virus. But that is not the point. The point is that we did not know this would be the case. Other side-effects may come up as time goes on. > This is not really true, we have a ton of data from this vaccine and from previous ones that can inform our expectations. Again, are you talking about the mRNA vaccines? I asked the question twice with regarding to it so I am not going to do it again here.