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I do not believe that at any point paternity leave will work for men. I do understand push and how it’s beneficial to woman and to children, but in my opinion
by xlii 5y ago
I do not believe that at any point paternity leave will work for men.
I do understand push and how it’s beneficial to woman and to children, but in my opinion the whole idea ignores men, how they feel about it and how men function in society in general.
On paper everything looks great: Mother gets an opportunity to get back to her career, children gets some bonding time with father that might benefit for years to come and father gets insight in the life of the child and caring for his family. Reality, however, for many men is different.
Often men's only friends are at work. Taking paternity leave not only detaches father from his friends but also creates a gap in father's group. If they have problem to whom they will come? Absent-at-work father will slowly get pushed out of the social group only because groups naturally seek opportunity to fill the void. Men aren't good at expressing emotions and everyone agrees that on paper paternity leave looks good. So what happens is that "oh yeah, relationship naturally deteriorated, and Tom really helped us with this project" but in reality it didn't and Tom hadn't. It's social dynamic that changed. Father knows what's up, his workgroup know what's up and yet no one will say "You know what, we missed you, you didn't even call us, so we were angry and decided Tom is our new friend and screw you". Yet while men don't really talk about emotions they can feel social dynamics and so it takes usually 1 or 2 fathers in workgroup and observation how social dynamics change around them after they come back. It's not ostracism, it's just when you're leaving your group for couple of months you cannot expect that they'll welcome you back even if you decided to leave them for a very sound reason.
Second thing is that men aren't really wired to take for the child. They don't get the same hormones woman and because of that experience of caring for the child is by default vastly different[*]. Men's bodies don't help them preserve the specie by releasing a number of happiness hormones as mothers body do. For men it's quite often the chore without positive feedback. And of course no one will ever complain about it as strong men are responsible and caring so it's not right thing to do, but I have yet to hear a man in my circle who will describe it as magical experience [1]. We live in an age where some fathers already took paternity leave and their children are teenagers and not adults and even those parents don't speak out outside of the "parenting improvement circles".
There are of course, many other factors, like the concept of breadwinner, strength of the partner relation etc., etc., but all of that combined makes me not believing it will ever take off on the big scale.
Anecdotal note: I spent 18 months taking care of my child during day while their mother worked and then for 1 year I was working in the evenings.
[1]: As with social dynamics there are always some outliers, response spectrums, variables and knobs so if that's you (and I do believe that HN hosts quite a lot of outliers on various topics) please take that into consideration :-)
- adrianN 5y ago>Often men's only friends are at work Yeah well, it's hard to make friends outside of work if you spent practically all your time there. It's exactly the same for women with 40+ hour work weeks.
- stevekemp 5y agoWhen you're on paternity leave you'll spend a lot of time pushing a pram around the neighbourhood, going to small parks, and gardens. Soon enough you'll find you've got a whole bunch of other parents to talk to, as you try to stop your child from eating all the sand in the sandbox at your local park. Later still when you take your child to pre-school, daycare, or similar, you'll also find more parents to hang around with. Especially if your child/children wants to play with particular kids in the evening/weekend. TLDR; Even if you're a workaholic and all your friends were previously from work, parenting will give you a lot of new friends.
- tephra 5y agoI'm not sure what you mean by "not work for men". In Sweden parental leave is just a normal part of society for both partners and it works great (indeed I'd go so far and say that all of my male colleagues that have gone on parental leave have all looked forward to it). I think the main thing to make it work is just to have a society that values people being able to spend time with their children. If it is a normal everyday part of life where society supports it (for example financially) it works great.
- brnt 5y ago> Often men's only friends are at work. > Second thing is that men aren't really wired to take for the child. Two things that I've never seen or heard of in my environment or in general, and things that seem deep into stereotype territory. > As with social dynamics there are always some outliers And sometimes, you are one of them!
- Deestan 5y agoMultiple months of paternity leave for men is well established in Norway (and other Nordic countries), and has been for a long time. When given a real choice, men are eager to and capable of caring for their small ones. Even from the first month. Any amount of rehashing, thinking-really-hard-about and mashing preconceptions and stereotypes together in new and interesting ways to form an opinion on how well this would work, is moot. It already works.