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> academics found that for heterosexual married couples, the father taking any paternity leave after the birth of a child can also cause the divorce risk to dro

> academics found that for heterosexual married couples, the father taking any paternity leave after the birth of a child can also cause the divorce risk to drop for up to six years after the birth. I’d challenge the word “cause” here. My guess is it’s just a leading indicator signaling the dad is engaged in/places high priority on the family which extends to the marriage.

charia 5y ago
Yeah, and for a father to take paternity leave suggests the father's job and family's financial situation are doing reasonably well. Financial stability plays a huge factor in keeping couples together.
dtech 5y ago
True, but causation isn't a stretch. The father bonding with the child and getting experienced with childcare could be a destressor for the marriage.
- richardwhiuk 5y ago
  It's a leap.
  - vmception 5y ago
    A quantum leap
    - kbelder 5y ago
      Do you mean the smallest leap possible, or do you mean a sudden transformative leap?
  - op00to 5y ago
    Are you married with children? Share your experience rather than dismissing it out of hand with no explanation.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The father bonding with the child and getting experienced with childcare could be a destressor for the marriage. Aside from the cases where there is some kind of fundamental incompatibility being papered over by absence (which, sure, is a thing that happens, though), I fail to see how it could fail to be.
- conductr 5y ago
  I suppose I view causation as a direct link. Not a secondary/tertiary side effect. I do agree with the sentiment of what you're saying and it makes sense in a "common sense"/hearsay type way but this is citing academic research which has a different burden of proof for determining causation.
  - dtech 5y ago
    That's not really a useful definition. A government mandating covid lockdown will almost immediately reduce the number of traffic accidents - a causal link - even thought there are intermediate steps of people not needing to drive to work, so there are less people driving. It's an indirect effect but still a causation.
    - conductr 5y ago
      If you were an academic studying traffic accidents you would talk about reduced traffic, relative risk of having an accident, and covid/wfh/shutdown would be a great context of why those things had changed. For example, if covid reduced number of cars on road and thus absolute number of accidents. Your saying you'd determine it's safer to drive because covid. However, in a relative sense, maybe pre-covid you had a 1% chance of being in an accident and during covid you had a 5% chance of being in an accident. What caused that? You can't just said covid made everything screwy and caused it all. You need to dig deeper. Are people running red lights because there are fewer cars on the road? Are people distracted because TikTok? Are they racing around trying to find toilet paper? Sure covid did all those things, but simply blaming covid is not really a useful analysis except in casual conversation; not academic research.
- em-bee 5y ago
  to answer this, research needs to look at the factors causing divorce. a father not helping to take care of the kids could certainly be a factor. if the mother feels that the father is not helping she may be more willing to get divorced because it won't make her life much harder anyways. a father bonding with his children may also be more willing to avoid divorce. but are these really significant factors? only research can answer that.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
After reading the linked paper[1] cited by the BBC and how they controlled for outside variables it looks like they just measured economic stability without saying they were. They controlled for race, education, part vs full time employment and nature of work (professional vs labor vs service) but not household income (!!!!!!). Though in their defense they admitted as much in the results. Couples where finances are stable enough that the person who didn't just pop out a kid can justify taking the time off are going to have the spare resources to maintain a marriage. They can afford all sorts of lifestyle crap that puts less stress on a relationship than living paycheck to paycheck in a double wide with a toddler running around causing problems. The correlation between stable finances and a stable marriage has been studied written about at length. [1] http://paa2019.populationassociation.org/uploads/190145 http://paa2019.populationassociation.org/uploads/190145

charia 5y ago

Yeah, and for a father to take paternity leave suggests the father's job and family's financial situation are doing reasonably well. Financial stability plays a huge factor in keeping couples together.

dtech 5y ago

True, but causation isn't a stretch. The father bonding with the child and getting experienced with childcare could be a destressor for the marriage.

richardwhiuk 5y ago
It's a leap.
- vmception 5y ago
  A quantum leap
  - kbelder 5y ago
    Do you mean the smallest leap possible, or do you mean a sudden transformative leap?
- op00to 5y ago
  Are you married with children? Share your experience rather than dismissing it out of hand with no explanation.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> The father bonding with the child and getting experienced with childcare could be a destressor for the marriage. Aside from the cases where there is some kind of fundamental incompatibility being papered over by absence (which, sure, is a thing that happens, though), I fail to see how it could fail to be.
conductr 5y ago
I suppose I view causation as a direct link. Not a secondary/tertiary side effect. I do agree with the sentiment of what you're saying and it makes sense in a "common sense"/hearsay type way but this is citing academic research which has a different burden of proof for determining causation.
- dtech 5y ago
  That's not really a useful definition. A government mandating covid lockdown will almost immediately reduce the number of traffic accidents - a causal link - even thought there are intermediate steps of people not needing to drive to work, so there are less people driving. It's an indirect effect but still a causation.
  - conductr 5y ago
    If you were an academic studying traffic accidents you would talk about reduced traffic, relative risk of having an accident, and covid/wfh/shutdown would be a great context of why those things had changed. For example, if covid reduced number of cars on road and thus absolute number of accidents. Your saying you'd determine it's safer to drive because covid. However, in a relative sense, maybe pre-covid you had a 1% chance of being in an accident and during covid you had a 5% chance of being in an accident. What caused that? You can't just said covid made everything screwy and caused it all. You need to dig deeper. Are people running red lights because there are fewer cars on the road? Are people distracted because TikTok? Are they racing around trying to find toilet paper? Sure covid did all those things, but simply blaming covid is not really a useful analysis except in casual conversation; not academic research.
em-bee 5y ago
to answer this, research needs to look at the factors causing divorce. a father not helping to take care of the kids could certainly be a factor. if the mother feels that the father is not helping she may be more willing to get divorced because it won't make her life much harder anyways. a father bonding with his children may also be more willing to avoid divorce. but are these really significant factors? only research can answer that.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

After reading the linked paper[1] cited by the BBC and how they controlled for outside variables it looks like they just measured economic stability without saying they were. They controlled for race, education, part vs full time employment and nature of work (professional vs labor vs service) but not household income (!!!!!!). Though in their defense they admitted as much in the results. Couples where finances are stable enough that the person who didn't just pop out a kid can justify taking the time off are going to have the spare resources to maintain a marriage. They can afford all sorts of lifestyle crap that puts less stress on a relationship than living paycheck to paycheck in a double wide with a toddler running around causing problems. The correlation between stable finances and a stable marriage has been studied written about at length. [1] http://paa2019.populationassociation.org/uploads/190145 http://paa2019.populationassociation.org/uploads/190145