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This is the framework: https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ - Why do they have 4 SWE levels? - Why
by ZephyrBlu 5y ago
This is the framework: https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/
- Why do they have 4 SWE levels?
- Why is there no Senior SWE level?
- Why is there no Junior SWE level?
It seems like IC1 = Intern, IC2 = Junior, IC3 = Developer, IC4 = Senior. No idea why they're not named closer to that.
Also, do people think that these role descriptions are actually helpful? I find them extremely vague and generally unhelpful in determining if I'm performing at a particular level.
- desdiv 5y agoFrom that page, I'm seeing 7 SWE levels from the sidebar: - IC1 Software Engineer - IC2 Software Engineer - IC3 Software Engineer - IC4 Software Engineer - IC5 Staff Software Engineer - IC6 Principal Software Engineer - IC7 Sr. Principal Software Engineer (This is on a desktop browser. Maybe you're only seeing 4 levels because you're on a mobile browser and the rest is cut off. Or maybe you indeed saw 4 levels and the site has been updated since your post.)
- ZephyrBlu 5y agoBy SWE I meant literally "Software Engineer", as in IC1-4 Software Engineer compared to Staff, Principal, etc.
- desdiv 5y agoI see what you mean now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's possible that they "bumped up" the intern and junior titles all into "Software Engineer" as a form of title inflation.
- wrs 5y agoIt’s very common to have just numbers for the first few SWE levels. It is a bit unusual not to have “Senior” for 4, but then again it is pretty self-evident from the number.
- Roritharr 5y agoWhat's the best way to figure out where you are on that scale as an outsider?
- qbasic_forever 5y agoIC3 or 4 looks like most senior engineers--i.e. you are now a force multiplier for your team. You are giving help, mentorship, advice, expertise, etc. more than you are needing it yourself. You're helping with important interview and hiring decisions.
- titanomachy 5y agohttp://levels.fyi http://levels.fyi
- oaiey 5y agoI think they skip naming them because junior is a bit insulting and senior is pointless when you have three more seniority level above it. Also people are very fluent in this range. They develop in this range quickly. A very young person can reach seniority quite fast.
- rhizome 5y ago"Junior" is only insulting when the company doesn't promote from within. Which is most online companies, sure, but that's no reason not to buck the conventions.
- oaiey 5y agoOh definitely. Being a junior rank also has privileges etc. There are also other conventions we - as a society - try to break away from. So discussion and alternatives to conventions is something completely fine.
- chris11 5y agoLevels aren't standardized in industry, but they are inside a company. They impact pay bands and other things. IC1 sounds like it's for new grads. Junior doesn't seem to be a popular title in the bay area. One or two are probably Senior levels. I find it useful for how they change. Work complexity grows, timelines go from some tasks to multi-year projects, and you are expected to work more outside your team and mentor engineers. It doesn't really give you a path to get promoted though.
- sdfdsfdsfdfd 5y agoIC1 = new grad/little experience IC2 = mid-tier (usually 2-5 yoe) IC3 = senior (usually minimum of 5 yoe (this maps to L5 at google)) IC4 = senior/tech lead ... levels.fyi is also helpful for comparing with other companies.
- dannyw 5y agohelpful but I certainly hope levels are based on individual skills and not just years of experience!