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I was always under the impression that Karate wasn't particularly useful for combat / self-defense. Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as

I was always under the impression that Karate wasn't particularly useful for combat / self-defense. Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as actually useful for self-defense.

bloniac 5y ago
That or boxing or kickboxing or wrestling or bjj. Those are the only truly effective combat sports. Perhaps judo too.
- datameta 5y ago
  It is the confidence in being able to defend oneself that leads one to avoid having fights intitiated with them by virtue of how they comport themselves in a relaxed unthreatened manner. To top it off, training in something like muay thai will get the kid a great headstart on leading a fit lifestyle. Never done an aerobic activity more tiring or sweat inducing.
  - bloniac 5y ago
    Ah yes I forgot Muay Thai… that’s the real deal for sure.
    - datameta 5y ago
      Oh you pretty much covered my point with kickboxing and the rest :) Only adding a specific one from my experience.
- weimerica 5y ago
  The only push-back I have on BJJ (as I practice both KM and BJJ) is that there is a huge sport-orientation whereas KM, assuming trained competently, is a combative system such that you'll often get a "practice this slowly and carefully because you can and will cause damage to your partner." Personally, I have a little harder of a time training BJJ for the reason that everyone thinks it is the best for real-world defense but the reality is many moves open you up to serious maiming in a combative environment. Take for example the typical "get past the guard" move, I most always have the option in a true fight of grabbing your knees and splaying them outward leaving you with an unfortunate convalescent leave, perhaps permanent injury. More generally, if you're going for true-blue self-defense any sporting-oriented art is good but not great - you'll do well against an untrained assailant, which is likely a good chunk of the threat model.
  - jerednel 5y ago
    perhaps im misunderstanding but just pushing someones knees apart when you are in their closed guard just wouldn't work. and given the presence of the electric chair and the twister i'm not sure that any approach to passing guard would necessarily be disallowed unless you are striking.
anon_tor_12345 5y ago
>Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as actually useful for self-defense i'm not big on martial arts or even mma but for some reason i've seen this argument in various places often enough that i've also seen the appropriate response: if that were true then all of the most successful mma fighters would be krav maga experts. in actuality not a single one practices krav maga. the proof is in the pudding.
- askvictor 5y ago
  I'm similarly not into MMA, but I wouldn't think it's a good system to determine real-world performance of a martial art. Most people aren't going to be pitted against high-level fighters in a ring; they'll be out on the street. It comes down to why you're learning the martial art, and to some degree, what your threat model is.
- GloriousKoji 5y ago
  Maybe because MMA is a sport and not an actual life or death combat? I'm sure if they allowed things like throat jabs, eye stabs, crotch shots and immediate joint dislocation upon grapple we'd see a lot more krav maga techniques.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    This is a popular argument but it doesn't work if you think about it for a while. Put a good striker in a fight with someone who isn't a good striker. The skilled fighter would evade most of what the unskilled fighter threw at them. There isn't even much need for blocking and covering if most of what is coming at you isn't making significant contact in the first place. Now take out the rules. If the unskilled fighter couldn't land a punch on the skilled fighter before, why would you expect them to suddenly be able to land an extremely precise strike to a vulnerable area now? And why wouldn't the skilled fighter also be able to do the same but better since they still have more power and accuracy and the unskilled fighter still has weaker defence? It's the same with grappling. It's true that a joint lock can be devastating and that's why we usually disallow most of them in combat sports, but to be applied reliably you need some control over the area around the joint. Put a good grappler in a fight with someone who isn't a good grappler. The good grappler is going to control the position better. Now take out the rules. If the unskilled fighter couldn't get a good position to control the skilled fighter before, why would you expect them to suddenly be able to apply an effective joint lock now? And why wouldn't the skilled fighter also be able to do the same but better since they still have a better position to work from and the unskilled fighter still has weaker defence? MMA is a sport and an MMA match isn't like a "real" fight for all kinds of reasons but simple, efficient, effective techniques such as you see in MMA matches are a good foundation for "real" fighting too, even if you might choose to add other types of training as well for use outside the controlled environment.
paulmooreparks 5y ago
There isn't a single art that I'd call "karate." There are many styles, and they have many schools and lineages. The style I studied was taught for free in the sensei's basement, and it was, to put it bluntly, a rather brutal art. Not many parents would be into it (all of the students were adults in my dojo). Not to take anything away from Krav Maga and similar styles. There's just a lot of variation in what is called karate.

I was always under the impression that Karate wasn't particularly useful for combat / self-defense. Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as actually useful for self-defense.

bloniac 5y ago

That or boxing or kickboxing or wrestling or bjj. Those are the only truly effective combat sports. Perhaps judo too.

datameta 5y ago
It is the confidence in being able to defend oneself that leads one to avoid having fights intitiated with them by virtue of how they comport themselves in a relaxed unthreatened manner. To top it off, training in something like muay thai will get the kid a great headstart on leading a fit lifestyle. Never done an aerobic activity more tiring or sweat inducing.
- bloniac 5y ago
  Ah yes I forgot Muay Thai… that’s the real deal for sure.
  - datameta 5y ago
    Oh you pretty much covered my point with kickboxing and the rest :) Only adding a specific one from my experience.
weimerica 5y ago
The only push-back I have on BJJ (as I practice both KM and BJJ) is that there is a huge sport-orientation whereas KM, assuming trained competently, is a combative system such that you'll often get a "practice this slowly and carefully because you can and will cause damage to your partner." Personally, I have a little harder of a time training BJJ for the reason that everyone thinks it is the best for real-world defense but the reality is many moves open you up to serious maiming in a combative environment. Take for example the typical "get past the guard" move, I most always have the option in a true fight of grabbing your knees and splaying them outward leaving you with an unfortunate convalescent leave, perhaps permanent injury. More generally, if you're going for true-blue self-defense any sporting-oriented art is good but not great - you'll do well against an untrained assailant, which is likely a good chunk of the threat model.
- jerednel 5y ago
  perhaps im misunderstanding but just pushing someones knees apart when you are in their closed guard just wouldn't work. and given the presence of the electric chair and the twister i'm not sure that any approach to passing guard would necessarily be disallowed unless you are striking.

anon_tor_12345 5y ago

>Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as actually useful for self-defense i'm not big on martial arts or even mma but for some reason i've seen this argument in various places often enough that i've also seen the appropriate response: if that were true then all of the most successful mma fighters would be krav maga experts. in actuality not a single one practices krav maga. the proof is in the pudding.

askvictor 5y ago
I'm similarly not into MMA, but I wouldn't think it's a good system to determine real-world performance of a martial art. Most people aren't going to be pitted against high-level fighters in a ring; they'll be out on the street. It comes down to why you're learning the martial art, and to some degree, what your threat model is.
GloriousKoji 5y ago
Maybe because MMA is a sport and not an actual life or death combat? I'm sure if they allowed things like throat jabs, eye stabs, crotch shots and immediate joint dislocation upon grapple we'd see a lot more krav maga techniques.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  This is a popular argument but it doesn't work if you think about it for a while. Put a good striker in a fight with someone who isn't a good striker. The skilled fighter would evade most of what the unskilled fighter threw at them. There isn't even much need for blocking and covering if most of what is coming at you isn't making significant contact in the first place. Now take out the rules. If the unskilled fighter couldn't land a punch on the skilled fighter before, why would you expect them to suddenly be able to land an extremely precise strike to a vulnerable area now? And why wouldn't the skilled fighter also be able to do the same but better since they still have more power and accuracy and the unskilled fighter still has weaker defence? It's the same with grappling. It's true that a joint lock can be devastating and that's why we usually disallow most of them in combat sports, but to be applied reliably you need some control over the area around the joint. Put a good grappler in a fight with someone who isn't a good grappler. The good grappler is going to control the position better. Now take out the rules. If the unskilled fighter couldn't get a good position to control the skilled fighter before, why would you expect them to suddenly be able to apply an effective joint lock now? And why wouldn't the skilled fighter also be able to do the same but better since they still have a better position to work from and the unskilled fighter still has weaker defence? MMA is a sport and an MMA match isn't like a "real" fight for all kinds of reasons but simple, efficient, effective techniques such as you see in MMA matches are a good foundation for "real" fighting too, even if you might choose to add other types of training as well for use outside the controlled environment.

paulmooreparks 5y ago

There isn't a single art that I'd call "karate." There are many styles, and they have many schools and lineages. The style I studied was taught for free in the sensei's basement, and it was, to put it bluntly, a rather brutal art. Not many parents would be into it (all of the students were adults in my dojo). Not to take anything away from Krav Maga and similar styles. There's just a lot of variation in what is called karate.