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The point is not to call them incompetent - there absolutely are rigorous and good third party repair shops out there. Unfortunately, there are just as much of

The point is not to call them incompetent - there absolutely are rigorous and good third party repair shops out there. Unfortunately, there are just as much of them just trying to get your money and then fixing it the simplest and cheapest way possible, without the consideration for long term safety and secondary effects that Tesla has probably put in. As an outsider, it's hard to tell the difference, but I agree with the grandparent that an order of magnitude cheaper does look too good to be true at first.

CRConrad 5y ago
> As an outsider, it's hard to tell the difference, but I agree with the grandparent that an order of magnitude cheaper does look too good to be true at first. Whereas, looking at it the other way around, an order of magnitude more expensive on the part of the manufacturer unfortunately doesn't look too bad to be true at all.
ohxigxigzitz 5y ago
Tesla shoves fucking wooden blocks throughout their cars to resolve fittment issues. You'd be an idiot to think they're any more motivated to properly repair vehicles than a third party.
gopher_space 5y ago
> without the consideration for long term safety and secondary effects that Tesla has probably put in. This seems like an incredibly wild assumption. The German concept of 'keine ehrfurcht fur deine maschine' will keep you from seeing every problem as a chance for your box to shine.
- lmm 5y ago
  Searching for that phrase mainly brings up this thread, so, uh, what are you talking about?
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    Google Translate says: 'no respect for your machine'. Still not quite sure what the poster meant.
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      A possibly more accurate translation, depending on how "Erfurcht" is read, might be "don't deify the machine", as in "don't hesitate because you fear you can not understand it" (I'm German myself). This interpretation would somewhat make sense in the context.
      - kwhitefoot 5y ago
        Thank you, that makes much more sense.
  - gopher_space 5y ago
    It was a callback to KMFDM's point of view combined with a little "every problem looks like a nail" thinking that wildly missed its mark as a joke, unfortunately for me.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  Well, it depends a bit on the possible failure scenarios. If we would be talking about a 10$ toy, hacking something together would totally be fine with me. But we're talking about a 40k$ car and a system which is critical for cooling a part that is very eager to start a fire. I can easily imagine that the higher pressure or temperature tolerance would be needed if you're using the car in extremely hot weather (which can be a bit unexpected [0]) or when the battery experiences a critical failure. When working with systems that can have very bad failures, a bit of Ehrfurcht might be appropriate. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2021/jul/08/weatherwatch-canada-records-its-highest-temperature https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2021/jul/08/weatherwatch...
bbarnett 5y ago
While I agree (good and bad repair shops), this extends to dealers and even management at local, non-franchised shops. EG, a specific Tesla shop can be stuck with bad management too. A Canadian banks was caught because tellers were signing people up, unaware, with free credit cards, over draft protection, monthly plans, and even lines of credit. Why? Management tying performance and promotion, and even job security, with overly aggressive conversion numbers. So, even a Tesla shop may try an upsale, to get monthly profit numbers up. In terms of the hack? It's not a hack. It is a simple, sensible fix. Bear in mind, the Tesla shop he went to? Seems to be little more than a component swapping repair site. They likely know little about car repair. One other thing. You get good at car repair, when you work on 10, 20, 30 year old cars. Fixing new, in lease cars is easy by comparison. Tesla has little experience with 20 year old wear and tear fixes... Yet independent shops and experienced mechanics do.

CRConrad 5y ago

> As an outsider, it's hard to tell the difference, but I agree with the grandparent that an order of magnitude cheaper does look too good to be true at first. Whereas, looking at it the other way around, an order of magnitude more expensive on the part of the manufacturer unfortunately doesn't look too bad to be true at all.

ohxigxigzitz 5y ago

Tesla shoves fucking wooden blocks throughout their cars to resolve fittment issues. You'd be an idiot to think they're any more motivated to properly repair vehicles than a third party.

gopher_space 5y ago

> without the consideration for long term safety and secondary effects that Tesla has probably put in. This seems like an incredibly wild assumption. The German concept of 'keine ehrfurcht fur deine maschine' will keep you from seeing every problem as a chance for your box to shine.

lmm 5y ago
Searching for that phrase mainly brings up this thread, so, uh, what are you talking about?
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Google Translate says: 'no respect for your machine'. Still not quite sure what the poster meant.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    A possibly more accurate translation, depending on how "Erfurcht" is read, might be "don't deify the machine", as in "don't hesitate because you fear you can not understand it" (I'm German myself). This interpretation would somewhat make sense in the context.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      Thank you, that makes much more sense.
- gopher_space 5y ago
  It was a callback to KMFDM's point of view combined with a little "every problem looks like a nail" thinking that wildly missed its mark as a joke, unfortunately for me.
Sebb767 5y ago
Well, it depends a bit on the possible failure scenarios. If we would be talking about a 10$ toy, hacking something together would totally be fine with me. But we're talking about a 40k$ car and a system which is critical for cooling a part that is very eager to start a fire. I can easily imagine that the higher pressure or temperature tolerance would be needed if you're using the car in extremely hot weather (which can be a bit unexpected [0]) or when the battery experiences a critical failure. When working with systems that can have very bad failures, a bit of Ehrfurcht might be appropriate. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2021/jul/08/weatherwatch-canada-records-its-highest-temperature https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2021/jul/08/weatherwatch...

bbarnett 5y ago

While I agree (good and bad repair shops), this extends to dealers and even management at local, non-franchised shops. EG, a specific Tesla shop can be stuck with bad management too. A Canadian banks was caught because tellers were signing people up, unaware, with free credit cards, over draft protection, monthly plans, and even lines of credit. Why? Management tying performance and promotion, and even job security, with overly aggressive conversion numbers. So, even a Tesla shop may try an upsale, to get monthly profit numbers up. In terms of the hack? It's not a hack. It is a simple, sensible fix. Bear in mind, the Tesla shop he went to? Seems to be little more than a component swapping repair site. They likely know little about car repair. One other thing. You get good at car repair, when you work on 10, 20, 30 year old cars. Fixing new, in lease cars is easy by comparison. Tesla has little experience with 20 year old wear and tear fixes... Yet independent shops and experienced mechanics do.