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All of the Tesla fanboys saying you don't need LIDAR, RADAR, or Maps as a kind of "ground truth" and you can get by on video only should take this as a huge rep

All of the Tesla fanboys saying you don't need LIDAR, RADAR, or Maps as a kind of "ground truth" and you can get by on video only should take this as a huge repudiation of brag by Musk. Look, Radar, Lidar, and Maps aren't perfect. A map can be wrong, Radar can have false echos, Lidar can have issues in bad weather, etc. But if you're depending on visual recognition of one-way signs, having a potentially out-of-date backup map to check your prediction again, and err on the side of caution, is better than having no Map at all. Ditto for radar and lidar. Radar enabled cars have collided with semis, remember, because they're aimed low (underneath the semi). But in the case of these planters, or road cones, or monorail poles, the radar is going to be a strong signal to the rest of the system that it isn't seeing something. There's no way FSD should be allowed on public roads, it's not even CLOSE to ready. The other car companies are behaving far more responsibility: full sensor suite, multi-sensor fusion, comparison with detailed road maps, and limiting operation to safe areas, and expanding as safety is proven. Who the hell cares if it's not FSD driving if its so dangerous? I'll take 75% FSD that only operates on highways and long commutes or road trips, over 100% FSD that has so many disengagements and "woah" moments as to be unusable.

TheParkShark 5y ago
I see this argument a lot. This is a small beta test and I have yet to see anything better on a larger scale. Most drivers shouldn’t be allowed on public roads yet here we are. Why are you so full of fear and anger over this? Isn’t this a place for open discussion?
- nullc 5y ago
  > I have yet to see anything better on a larger scale Waymo self-driving is a relatively large scale. It also has blunders but they appear to be far less concerning than Tesla's.
  - TheParkShark 5y ago
    Geo-fenced isn’t large scale. There’s no clear route to allow them to expand that tech.
    - cromwellian 5y ago
      When you're Google, and you have a fleet a worldwide Streetview cars with high-resolution mapping, there's actually a pretty clear way for them to expand them by metro area, especially suburb-by-suburb.
- cromwellian 5y ago
  Because every year, Tesla keeps saying it's going to ship soon. It's clear this isn't even close to ready, I'd say it's 10 years from shipping, if not back to the drawing board. Tesla is having people pay for a self driving package as an option, and years later, it still isn't available. Shouldn't they refund their owners? I mean, just look at the visual representation of what the FSD is showing. It has no temporal stability. Solid objects are constantly appearing and disappearing. Often the trajectory line periodically switches from a sane path to some radically wrong path. The car then often takes a HARD accelerated left or right, like it is dodging something, which often isn't there, only to threaten another collision. It's like a Trolley Problem where one of the tracks is empty, and you divert the trolley into a group of kids. The "aggressive" nature of its fails is super concerning. My son is 16 and learning to drive right now. When he makes a mistake, he doesn't aggressively accelerate and make wild turns, he hits the brakes. In most cases, in residential traffic (25-30mph), someone braking will annoy other drivers, but they will be able to stop and avoid collision. At many city driving speeds, you should not have to make sudden, super aggressive turns into the other lanes. Just safety come to a stop, even if you annoy people. I see Musk's attitude here as endangering the public. Cars aren't rockets launched at far away landing strips by expert flight controllers. Even these beta testers can fuck up, as numerous people have already died using FSD, because some dipshits like to watch DVDs or sit in the back seats to show off to friends on TikTok, dangering not just themselves, but the public. The beta should be closed IMHO to Tesla employees only and professionally hired drivers. I mean, why can't Tesla just do what other companies do, hire like 1000 drivers to go drive FSD around 100 American cities for months at a time collecting data?
  - TheParkShark 5y ago
    The visual representation isn’t an accurate measurement of what the car is actually seeing, I think Tesla cleaning this up (which is has on the newest FSD) will be a clear way to show people what it sees. I’d like to see Tesla do more to calm doubts about this. If you watch the full videos and not a mash up, you’ll see most drivers drive long routes without any problems with the software. It’s the edge cases you’re seeing and yes you can make a compilation with them and make it look horrible. Honest question, do you think a Tesla that doesn’t recognize whats in front of it to 100% should stop in the road? I saw this recently with Waymo and it stayed blocking traffic until a Waymo tech arrived then the car tried to drive away from the tech. This doesn’t seem like the better answer to me, but I don’t have one. As far as comparing it to a teenage driver, they are the most dangerous drivers on the road and Tesla’s happen to be the safest rated cars in accidents. Interesting combo. Can you please link an article about FSD and deaths? There have been a few on auto pilot when the drivers are not paying attention but I’m not aware of a single FSD death. Why can’t other companies make self driving software/hardware that a normal person can afford? All other options are insanely expensive and out of reach of anyone but millionaires.

TheParkShark 5y ago

I see this argument a lot. This is a small beta test and I have yet to see anything better on a larger scale. Most drivers shouldn’t be allowed on public roads yet here we are. Why are you so full of fear and anger over this? Isn’t this a place for open discussion?

nullc 5y ago
> I have yet to see anything better on a larger scale Waymo self-driving is a relatively large scale. It also has blunders but they appear to be far less concerning than Tesla's.
- TheParkShark 5y ago
  Geo-fenced isn’t large scale. There’s no clear route to allow them to expand that tech.
  - cromwellian 5y ago
    When you're Google, and you have a fleet a worldwide Streetview cars with high-resolution mapping, there's actually a pretty clear way for them to expand them by metro area, especially suburb-by-suburb.
cromwellian 5y ago
Because every year, Tesla keeps saying it's going to ship soon. It's clear this isn't even close to ready, I'd say it's 10 years from shipping, if not back to the drawing board. Tesla is having people pay for a self driving package as an option, and years later, it still isn't available. Shouldn't they refund their owners? I mean, just look at the visual representation of what the FSD is showing. It has no temporal stability. Solid objects are constantly appearing and disappearing. Often the trajectory line periodically switches from a sane path to some radically wrong path. The car then often takes a HARD accelerated left or right, like it is dodging something, which often isn't there, only to threaten another collision. It's like a Trolley Problem where one of the tracks is empty, and you divert the trolley into a group of kids. The "aggressive" nature of its fails is super concerning. My son is 16 and learning to drive right now. When he makes a mistake, he doesn't aggressively accelerate and make wild turns, he hits the brakes. In most cases, in residential traffic (25-30mph), someone braking will annoy other drivers, but they will be able to stop and avoid collision. At many city driving speeds, you should not have to make sudden, super aggressive turns into the other lanes. Just safety come to a stop, even if you annoy people. I see Musk's attitude here as endangering the public. Cars aren't rockets launched at far away landing strips by expert flight controllers. Even these beta testers can fuck up, as numerous people have already died using FSD, because some dipshits like to watch DVDs or sit in the back seats to show off to friends on TikTok, dangering not just themselves, but the public. The beta should be closed IMHO to Tesla employees only and professionally hired drivers. I mean, why can't Tesla just do what other companies do, hire like 1000 drivers to go drive FSD around 100 American cities for months at a time collecting data?
- TheParkShark 5y ago
  The visual representation isn’t an accurate measurement of what the car is actually seeing, I think Tesla cleaning this up (which is has on the newest FSD) will be a clear way to show people what it sees. I’d like to see Tesla do more to calm doubts about this. If you watch the full videos and not a mash up, you’ll see most drivers drive long routes without any problems with the software. It’s the edge cases you’re seeing and yes you can make a compilation with them and make it look horrible. Honest question, do you think a Tesla that doesn’t recognize whats in front of it to 100% should stop in the road? I saw this recently with Waymo and it stayed blocking traffic until a Waymo tech arrived then the car tried to drive away from the tech. This doesn’t seem like the better answer to me, but I don’t have one. As far as comparing it to a teenage driver, they are the most dangerous drivers on the road and Tesla’s happen to be the safest rated cars in accidents. Interesting combo. Can you please link an article about FSD and deaths? There have been a few on auto pilot when the drivers are not paying attention but I’m not aware of a single FSD death. Why can’t other companies make self driving software/hardware that a normal person can afford? All other options are insanely expensive and out of reach of anyone but millionaires.