4 ms·

This is a design flaw. I wonder what other shameful design decisions were put in place to cut corners. Kind of glad I canceled a Tesla pre-order. I really hope

by xyst 5y ago

This is a design flaw. I wonder what other shameful design decisions were put in place to cut corners. Kind of glad I canceled a Tesla pre-order. I really hope other EV companies are learning from Tesla’s mistakes. From the lack of customer service from a maintenance aspect to poor repairability, that sort of reputation will stick with a company for a very long time. Going to run my current ICE to the ground until the 4-5th generation of EVs roll out.

Swenrekcah 5y ago
Personally I so want a Tesla because they are undoubtedly the best performers in the market today. However I won’t buy one until they also start being practical. I suspect my first EV will be from one of the traditional manufacturers because they all know how to make a car with proper controls. A 30” touchscreen is cool and a nice additional way to control stuff but absolutely terrible if it’s the only way. I’m guessing Elon Musk knows this but hoped he’d be able to make self driving work before now so that controls would be useless anyway. Unfortunately some of the traditional makers EVs are copying the mistakes of kitchen appliance makers, substituting proper buttons, levers and knobs for touch buttons and touchscreens as well.
bonestamp2 5y ago
> This is a design flaw. How do you know? I mean, maybe they very intentionally designed that part out of plastic so that it would break away from the battery in a case like this (instead of not breaking away and creating a higher risk of damaging the battery).
- cartoonworld 5y ago
  The right move is to route the coolant lines away from harmful road debris or add a shield or deflector. If the coolant line is the protection for the case, that sounds like a big mistake. The owner is indeed lucky that the bunge snapped off rather than crack the case, spilling gallons of toxic coolant all over the place and resting his un-burnt flesh in the failsafes of this battery monitoring system. It really smacks of someone who hasn't designed a lot of cars. Not that I have designed even one, but of all the things that can go wrong, coolant line damage seems pretty obvious. Teslas are full of weird stuff like this.
  - DannyBee 5y ago
    Look. I will never own or consider a Tesla given what i've seen, and will happily take them to task. But i think this is a bit far. It's pretty common in ICE vehicles for the oil pan to be easily damaged by road debris, and the oil it spills is more toxic than coolant. In particular, the Tesla's use glycol for cooling, which is not that bad to spill (certainly better than most oils). So while certainly not better than the status quo from a design perspective, it also doesn't seem worse than most vehicles in this respect.
    - cartoonworld 5y ago
      I just took a close look at a new model 3. I identified how the damage occurred in about 5 seconds. The coolant line runs right next to the rear sway bar and is visible from outside the vehicle. There is a basic plastic gaurd plate along the entire rear undercarriage. This 2020 model 3 has missing plastic body clip rivets in the area that is supposed to protect the cooling lines. I was able to easy move the panel exposing the entire line on both sides. A stick could easily get bound up in the wheel and whip right under it.
    - cartoonworld 5y ago
      Man, that reminds me of the time I cracked an oil pan in my old MB 190e. I was going to a trail head for a planned hike, and the vehicle markings were....ambiguous. I followed some tracks between two trees, but a wheel dropped into a pothole in the dirt, bottoming out right over a big ass rock which nicked the side of the pan, cracking it wide open. It can and does happen. Oil pans are metal and can usually handle a gopher or a 2-by-4. They are also usually guarded by a subframe to which the motor mounts attach. I don't know that Tesla uses glycol, which is pretty darn poisonous, I was under the impression it was HOAT, which is much less so, still not good, but who knows. I can see from the video there is a large plate that was supposed to shield this part, that the debris worked its way around, yanking on the poorly moored cooling line, cracking the coolant port. On consideration this looks a lot more like a fluke, so your point is well taken.
      - maxerickson 5y ago
- rtkwe 5y ago
  If it's intentionally designed to break away to protect something else they would/should have the ability to replace it instead of wanting 16k to replace the whole battery. If they did design it to break away AND don't make it reasonably replaceable it starts to look positively sinister....
  - bonestamp2 5y ago
    I generally agree, although it seems like Tesla service might be the problem, not the design. The article states that the depot the car was sent to only had the option to replace the battery. In other words, they don't have the tools and/or parts to remove the broken part and replace it. The repair could be done by Tesla if they wanted to, which means it's not necessarily bad design, but certainly bad service at a minimum.
0xF57A 5y ago
“ I really hope other EV companies are learning from Tesla’s mistakes.” This is literally the most ignorant thing I have ever seen written.
rtkwe 5y ago
There's other stuff like the moon roof motor is buried DEEP in the dash instead of right next to the window like most other cars so it requires huge amounts of labor to remove when it breaks. Or that the car can wind up with a dead (12v [0]) battery while connected to a charger. To then charge it you have to pull off numerous panels under the frunk. https://jalopnik.com/james-may-had-to-dismantle-his-tesla-model-s-to-charge-1846881619 https://jalopnik.com/james-may-had-to-dismantle-his-tesla-mo... [0] Which is the battery that runs essentially everything except the motors. Doors, windows, etc.
ineedasername 5y ago
It happens all the time, I recently had a crack in a seal around the fuel pump, but it was all one piece so I needed a new fuel pump. It's also a 12 year old car, has had only 1 other minor problem, and the pump was a cheap fix, so I don't feel I got ripped off on that particular repair. Manufacturers could do a much better job on this kind of thing, but not everything can be completely modular, and even if that was practical from a design perspective, the labor involved could often outweigh the cost of replacing the thing.

by xyst 5y ago

Swenrekcah 5y ago

Personally I so want a Tesla because they are undoubtedly the best performers in the market today. However I won’t buy one until they also start being practical. I suspect my first EV will be from one of the traditional manufacturers because they all know how to make a car with proper controls. A 30” touchscreen is cool and a nice additional way to control stuff but absolutely terrible if it’s the only way. I’m guessing Elon Musk knows this but hoped he’d be able to make self driving work before now so that controls would be useless anyway. Unfortunately some of the traditional makers EVs are copying the mistakes of kitchen appliance makers, substituting proper buttons, levers and knobs for touch buttons and touchscreens as well.

bonestamp2 5y ago

> This is a design flaw. How do you know? I mean, maybe they very intentionally designed that part out of plastic so that it would break away from the battery in a case like this (instead of not breaking away and creating a higher risk of damaging the battery).

cartoonworld 5y ago
The right move is to route the coolant lines away from harmful road debris or add a shield or deflector. If the coolant line is the protection for the case, that sounds like a big mistake. The owner is indeed lucky that the bunge snapped off rather than crack the case, spilling gallons of toxic coolant all over the place and resting his un-burnt flesh in the failsafes of this battery monitoring system. It really smacks of someone who hasn't designed a lot of cars. Not that I have designed even one, but of all the things that can go wrong, coolant line damage seems pretty obvious. Teslas are full of weird stuff like this.
- DannyBee 5y ago
  Look. I will never own or consider a Tesla given what i've seen, and will happily take them to task. But i think this is a bit far. It's pretty common in ICE vehicles for the oil pan to be easily damaged by road debris, and the oil it spills is more toxic than coolant. In particular, the Tesla's use glycol for cooling, which is not that bad to spill (certainly better than most oils). So while certainly not better than the status quo from a design perspective, it also doesn't seem worse than most vehicles in this respect.
  - cartoonworld 5y ago
    I just took a close look at a new model 3. I identified how the damage occurred in about 5 seconds. The coolant line runs right next to the rear sway bar and is visible from outside the vehicle. There is a basic plastic gaurd plate along the entire rear undercarriage. This 2020 model 3 has missing plastic body clip rivets in the area that is supposed to protect the cooling lines. I was able to easy move the panel exposing the entire line on both sides. A stick could easily get bound up in the wheel and whip right under it.
  - cartoonworld 5y ago
    Man, that reminds me of the time I cracked an oil pan in my old MB 190e. I was going to a trail head for a planned hike, and the vehicle markings were....ambiguous. I followed some tracks between two trees, but a wheel dropped into a pothole in the dirt, bottoming out right over a big ass rock which nicked the side of the pan, cracking it wide open. It can and does happen. Oil pans are metal and can usually handle a gopher or a 2-by-4. They are also usually guarded by a subframe to which the motor mounts attach. I don't know that Tesla uses glycol, which is pretty darn poisonous, I was under the impression it was HOAT, which is much less so, still not good, but who knows. I can see from the video there is a large plate that was supposed to shield this part, that the debris worked its way around, yanking on the poorly moored cooling line, cracking the coolant port. On consideration this looks a lot more like a fluke, so your point is well taken.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
rtkwe 5y ago
If it's intentionally designed to break away to protect something else they would/should have the ability to replace it instead of wanting 16k to replace the whole battery. If they did design it to break away AND don't make it reasonably replaceable it starts to look positively sinister....
- bonestamp2 5y ago
  I generally agree, although it seems like Tesla service might be the problem, not the design. The article states that the depot the car was sent to only had the option to replace the battery. In other words, they don't have the tools and/or parts to remove the broken part and replace it. The repair could be done by Tesla if they wanted to, which means it's not necessarily bad design, but certainly bad service at a minimum.

0xF57A 5y ago

“ I really hope other EV companies are learning from Tesla’s mistakes.” This is literally the most ignorant thing I have ever seen written.

rtkwe 5y ago

There's other stuff like the moon roof motor is buried DEEP in the dash instead of right next to the window like most other cars so it requires huge amounts of labor to remove when it breaks. Or that the car can wind up with a dead (12v [0]) battery while connected to a charger. To then charge it you have to pull off numerous panels under the frunk. https://jalopnik.com/james-may-had-to-dismantle-his-tesla-model-s-to-charge-1846881619 https://jalopnik.com/james-may-had-to-dismantle-his-tesla-mo... [0] Which is the battery that runs essentially everything except the motors. Doors, windows, etc.

ineedasername 5y ago

It happens all the time, I recently had a crack in a seal around the fuel pump, but it was all one piece so I needed a new fuel pump. It's also a 12 year old car, has had only 1 other minor problem, and the pump was a cheap fix, so I don't feel I got ripped off on that particular repair. Manufacturers could do a much better job on this kind of thing, but not everything can be completely modular, and even if that was practical from a design perspective, the labor involved could often outweigh the cost of replacing the thing.