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This repair is R&D that is definitely worth the price. There's no way this is a $200 repair, that Tesla took up a bunch of shop time and their specialized tech

This repair is R&D that is definitely worth the price. There's no way this is a $200 repair, that Tesla took up a bunch of shop time and their specialized technician for the better part of a day, carefully researching and installing this repair fitting. If you are charging $25/hr labor you are out of business. If the repair fails, they will likely take it back and improve the fix. Your plastic mystery fitting would likely not be compatible and cause a leak of whatever coolant is running around in there. Lastly, road hazard insurance didn't cover any repair. Tesla doesn't do this kind of repair as well, leaving the only recourse replacing the entire part.

mindslight 5y ago
"R&D" ?? It's replacing a molded hose barb with a threaded fitting. Also FTA: "the shop had another significantly cheaper solution it had used once before". What's pictured in the article looks like 2 hours of labor, which would be a few hundred dollars at the rate for generic labor. I'm specifically highlighting the additional premium that Tesla expertise is commanding right now. > mystery fitting You do realize that all the usual pipe fitting shapes come in materials besides brass, right? > Lastly, road hazard insurance didn't cover any repair. Yes, this is reflected in my comment. > Tesla doesn't do this kind of repair as well, leaving the only recourse replacing the entire part. I'm sure Tesla takes the "broken" core pack, disassembles it, replaces that one plastic molding, and ships it off to the next repair for another $16k. For Tesla to charge an insurance company $16k with the justification of replacing the whole pack (while not even mentioning core charges!) is essentially insurance fraud. They're skating by because they're new, but I can imagine in a few years either insurance companies will only pay for repairs from third parties who charge reasonable prices, or they will raise premiums significantly if you want to be entitled to OEM service/parts. I'd bet this dynamic is one of the main reasons Tesla is fighting Right to Repair.
- bitexploder 5y ago
  You have to know that repair is safe and meets all the coolant system design constraints. It certainly isn’t something most shops are going to just have a standard procedure for. That was what caused the problem in the first place.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Sure you technically have to "verify that repair is safe and meets all the coolant system design constraints". Except you don't, because common sense says most of those constraints are not critical. Like sure, the narrower ID of that 1/4" NPT nipple might cause a little more backpressure to the coolant pump. But there is no way the system would have been designed to be that marginal in the first place. The main thing to worry about is chemical compatibility of the antifreeze to the new materials, but that's at worst a half hour to find the antifreeze datasheet. Or the mechanic already knows, from seeing the parts of other systems that antifreeze is used in.
- cartoonworld 5y ago
  Regarding your confounding over R&D -- Yes it is. I am on board with you that the specialized Tesla mechanics are gonna charge more per hour, $200-$350 sounds reasonable for a car you can buy and sell for %30 more than you paid for it -- But its R&D for this reason: The worthiness of Tesla repairs are totally unknown. These technicians are taking a chance (and I'll bet they offer a warranty, standard practice among reputable practitioners in the industry) that they can tap the brass fitting into the Tesla plastic which has an unknown composition to me and you and it will be a more or less permanent fix. Just because it looks like 2 hours of labor doesn't mean there aren't other risks involved as well as servicing the battery cooling system properly. Such risks include: fire, poisoning, accidental damage, environmental disposal and cleanup, future warranty service, or even an unfortunate death caused by the repair failure causing the batteries to ignite. If you get the Monroe to spend 2 hours on it, it won't work and I can guarantee that. >You do realize that all the usual pipe fitting shapes come in materials besides brass, right? Yes I do. The materials are designed to be compatible with the components in the system. This is why Japanese aluminum motors typically use EPDM rubber parts and HOAT coolant without silicates, to prevent oxidization of the channels and water pump. Throw some ethylene glycol or silicate/borates and natural rubber in there and suffer the consequences. What will PVC do with the (speculating) polycarbonate body of the battery packs or the coolant(Another commenter claims it is the pretty expensive Zerex G48[0] wich will dissolve some plastics)? Brass is a good guess for compatibility, but why they chose that will cost you $700 to find out -- a bargain! I'm betting it's because available plastic fittings aren't going to have the strength to last in the reduced tolerances caused by the repaired threads in the plastic housing. Quite a bit of experience is really required to know if and how to do this right. >> Lastly, road hazard insurance didn't cover any repair. >Yes, this is reflected in my comment. >[...] >...For Tesla to charge an insurance company $16k with the justification of replacing the whole pack... Edit: I see your point here, Tesla dumbery = costly repairs. Definitely agree. Hopefully Right To Repair will free this proprietary information up to Alldata so anybody can pay a subscription fee and learn of the specifications and repair data. Also, it will standardize labor book time... [0] - https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/heavy-duty/zerex-g-48 https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/heavy-duty/zerex-g-48
  - mindslight 5y ago

mindslight 5y ago

"R&D" ?? It's replacing a molded hose barb with a threaded fitting. Also FTA: "the shop had another significantly cheaper solution it had used once before". What's pictured in the article looks like 2 hours of labor, which would be a few hundred dollars at the rate for generic labor. I'm specifically highlighting the additional premium that Tesla expertise is commanding right now. > mystery fitting You do realize that all the usual pipe fitting shapes come in materials besides brass, right? > Lastly, road hazard insurance didn't cover any repair. Yes, this is reflected in my comment. > Tesla doesn't do this kind of repair as well, leaving the only recourse replacing the entire part. I'm sure Tesla takes the "broken" core pack, disassembles it, replaces that one plastic molding, and ships it off to the next repair for another $16k. For Tesla to charge an insurance company $16k with the justification of replacing the whole pack (while not even mentioning core charges!) is essentially insurance fraud. They're skating by because they're new, but I can imagine in a few years either insurance companies will only pay for repairs from third parties who charge reasonable prices, or they will raise premiums significantly if you want to be entitled to OEM service/parts. I'd bet this dynamic is one of the main reasons Tesla is fighting Right to Repair.

bitexploder 5y ago
You have to know that repair is safe and meets all the coolant system design constraints. It certainly isn’t something most shops are going to just have a standard procedure for. That was what caused the problem in the first place.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Sure you technically have to "verify that repair is safe and meets all the coolant system design constraints". Except you don't, because common sense says most of those constraints are not critical. Like sure, the narrower ID of that 1/4" NPT nipple might cause a little more backpressure to the coolant pump. But there is no way the system would have been designed to be that marginal in the first place. The main thing to worry about is chemical compatibility of the antifreeze to the new materials, but that's at worst a half hour to find the antifreeze datasheet. Or the mechanic already knows, from seeing the parts of other systems that antifreeze is used in.
cartoonworld 5y ago
Regarding your confounding over R&D -- Yes it is. I am on board with you that the specialized Tesla mechanics are gonna charge more per hour, $200-$350 sounds reasonable for a car you can buy and sell for %30 more than you paid for it -- But its R&D for this reason: The worthiness of Tesla repairs are totally unknown. These technicians are taking a chance (and I'll bet they offer a warranty, standard practice among reputable practitioners in the industry) that they can tap the brass fitting into the Tesla plastic which has an unknown composition to me and you and it will be a more or less permanent fix. Just because it looks like 2 hours of labor doesn't mean there aren't other risks involved as well as servicing the battery cooling system properly. Such risks include: fire, poisoning, accidental damage, environmental disposal and cleanup, future warranty service, or even an unfortunate death caused by the repair failure causing the batteries to ignite. If you get the Monroe to spend 2 hours on it, it won't work and I can guarantee that. >You do realize that all the usual pipe fitting shapes come in materials besides brass, right? Yes I do. The materials are designed to be compatible with the components in the system. This is why Japanese aluminum motors typically use EPDM rubber parts and HOAT coolant without silicates, to prevent oxidization of the channels and water pump. Throw some ethylene glycol or silicate/borates and natural rubber in there and suffer the consequences. What will PVC do with the (speculating) polycarbonate body of the battery packs or the coolant(Another commenter claims it is the pretty expensive Zerex G48[0] wich will dissolve some plastics)? Brass is a good guess for compatibility, but why they chose that will cost you $700 to find out -- a bargain! I'm betting it's because available plastic fittings aren't going to have the strength to last in the reduced tolerances caused by the repaired threads in the plastic housing. Quite a bit of experience is really required to know if and how to do this right. >> Lastly, road hazard insurance didn't cover any repair. >Yes, this is reflected in my comment. >[...] >...For Tesla to charge an insurance company $16k with the justification of replacing the whole pack... Edit: I see your point here, Tesla dumbery = costly repairs. Definitely agree. Hopefully Right To Repair will free this proprietary information up to Alldata so anybody can pay a subscription fee and learn of the specifications and repair data. Also, it will standardize labor book time... [0] - https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/heavy-duty/zerex-g-48 https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/heavy-duty/zerex-g-48
- mindslight 5y ago