4 ms·

South Korea has had 2044 deaths, out of 51.7 million people. That's a death rate surely under the usual "flu and pneumonia" rate. I don't understand, I really

South Korea has had 2044 deaths, out of 51.7 million people. That's a death rate surely under the usual "flu and pneumonia" rate. I don't understand, I really don't. I anybody can explain, I'd very much appreciate.

dubcanada 5y ago
It's preventative rather then after the fact. Also covid restrictions do wonders for flu prevention!
kube-system 5y ago
There is absolutely no question that SK's strict prevention measures are the cause of that. They were very strict from day one, no doubt because they were hit hard by SARS-CoV-1.
- hntrowaway837 5y ago
  Really? "no question"? Aren't they also much healthier than, for instance, Americans? 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic, so I've heard recently.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Yes. To determine this, look at the total infection rate as well. South Korea is 329.92 per 100,000 people California is 9,712.28 per 100,000 people France is 9,002.09 per 100,000 people England is 8,004.18 per 100,000 people Finland is 1,772.60 per 100,000 people Taiwan, which also was hit hard by SARS... 64.13 per 100,000 people. These people have already been through respiratory epidemics in their lifetime, and they were prepared.
    - hntrowaway837 5y ago
      The infection rate is also commensurate with general immune system fitness. Remember in bad covid what we observe is vascular system failure, and we know that chronic hyperglycemia damages blood vessels. Combine that with non functional immune systems and this is what you get.
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Switzerland has a higher life expectancy than South Korea, and has a very wealthy and healthy population. Spain and Italy have both held the titles of "healthiest country in the world" in recent years. All three have incidence rates more than an order of magnitude larger than South Korea. Wearing respiratory protection equipment protects against respiratory contaminants. Testing people and tracing contacts helps to contain outbreaks. The answer is really that simple. South Korea was one of (if not) the first countries to start an aggressive testing and tracing program. On TV, I watched their citizens line up in cars at mass testing sites months before my multi-billion-dollar healthcare conglomerate here in the US even had testing available at all.
        hntrowaway837 5y ago
        My country wore masks too, did everybody in SK wore N95s or more?
        kube-system 5y ago
        KF94s are extremely popular in SK, and it was not unusual to see people wearing masks even before the COVID outbreak.
    - hntrowaway837 5y ago
      And what exactly did they do SO much better? My country wore masks, no social gatherings, distancing. What more?
      - kube-system 5y ago
        I'm not sure how I am expected to answer that question without knowing which country you are asking me to compare.
        hntrowaway837 5y ago
        If you need to know, France. I live in Paris, people here are very docile and obey the rules.
        kube-system 5y ago
        As an outsider looking at France's news about vaccination rates and hesitancy, it certainly doesn't look like your fellow citizens trust public health officials. Although, I've never really had the impression that French people trusted authority. Quite the opposite. But regardless, South Korea acted way quicker than any western democracy to test and trace.
        hntrowaway837 5y ago
        They don't but they obeyed, these are different things. Also France is decently vaccinated, yes some people don't plan to because they distrust government even more after this period.
        kube-system 5y ago
        By comparison, streets in South Korea were reported as being largely empty after around the time of their first COVID death, even though their authorities only suggested people stay home. Sometimes, public health is in the hands of the public.
  - yongjik 5y ago
    Are you going to argue that Americans were much healthier (or, maybe, Koreans were much less healthier) six years ago? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome_outbreak_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Middle_East_respiratory_s... Government response is a critical part of handling these diseases. We just spent a whole year running this experiment globally.
    - hntrowaway837 5y ago
      It depends on the disease, covid is immensely correlated with diabetes / metabolic syndrome, which is rampant in many western countries with America at the top.
    - hntrowaway837 5y ago
      My government had a very prompt response with some of the harshest lockdowns, and I observed people respecting the rules. I can't not believe my eyes.
      - sofixa 5y ago
        That was only the first time, and only after the virus was everywhere. SK reacted much more rapidly when it initially came to them. Furthermore, Schengen. SK are for all intents and purposes an island, and everything and everyone must come by either boat or plane, which helps with control.
thinkingemote 5y ago
It's behavioural modification, and it actually works. The aim is to encourage people to do certain things. To that end, restricting various things which on their own seem nonsensical, actually becomes justified if it changes behaviour. It's also "optics" which is mainly psychological.
- hntrowaway837 5y ago
  I happen to believe it's only optics, and frankly am disturbed to find myself in a fully postmodern society where only appearances and posturing matter.
pie420 5y ago
What's not to understand? The numbers in Korea are low because everyone is willing to sacrifice their personal freedom and convenience for the common good. They vigilantly wear masks, socially distance, follow guidelines, and abstain from K-Pop dancing at gyms and running fast on the treadmill when their health departments ask that of them. Americans will happily let more people die if it means they get to go to the gym without a mask. It's really that simple.
- hntrowaway837 5y ago
  You don't think it has anything to do with the awful physical and mental health of Americans, as opposed to not following the rules? And mind you, I'm not in American but in another western nation where I've observed with my own eyes that people have followed all the stupid rules, regardless of enthusiasm, but they respected them, and the outcome has been just as disproportionately bad.
  - Gosper 5y ago
    We have completely different observations. I spent last December in London and saw scant respect for the rules during the second wave. A minority of people wore masks, and few of those wore them properly. I was invited to a few house parties and festive gatherings. Then I spent January in Paris IIIe where mask compliance was much better, but the streets and supermarkets were heaving before the daily curfew. Squeezing down aisles to buy supplies for dinner. Friends publicly complied with the rules but had big house parties every weekend. I departed in shock and with an understanding of the European case numbers. There was no discipline, everyone seemed too fed up and bored to care anymore. Abstract anonymous others be damned. Returning to zeroth world east Asia was a relief. Everyone, and I mean 100% of everyone, wears masks properly. That originally happened before any official requirement. People go out when there are zero cases, but when a community transmission case happens the streets go quiet for a while, cases disappear, then nearly normal life resumes. While health might play a part, discipline, a sense of community respect, and a competent administration seem far more important.
- samatman 5y ago
  I disagree, I think it was 95% being a de-facto island and shutting down international travel without aggressive quarantine upon arrival. Why, you ask? Well I was living in Hawaii during the pandemic, we're Americans, and we had very similar results through the end of June 2020, nearly extirpated the virus in fact. Unfortunately the US Military couldn't be compelled to follow restrictions, and a huge outbreak in Pearl Harbor escaped containment and ruined all that hard work.

dubcanada 5y ago

It's preventative rather then after the fact. Also covid restrictions do wonders for flu prevention!

kube-system 5y ago

There is absolutely no question that SK's strict prevention measures are the cause of that. They were very strict from day one, no doubt because they were hit hard by SARS-CoV-1.

hntrowaway837 5y ago
Really? "no question"? Aren't they also much healthier than, for instance, Americans? 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic, so I've heard recently.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Yes. To determine this, look at the total infection rate as well. South Korea is 329.92 per 100,000 people California is 9,712.28 per 100,000 people France is 9,002.09 per 100,000 people England is 8,004.18 per 100,000 people Finland is 1,772.60 per 100,000 people Taiwan, which also was hit hard by SARS... 64.13 per 100,000 people. These people have already been through respiratory epidemics in their lifetime, and they were prepared.
  - hntrowaway837 5y ago
    The infection rate is also commensurate with general immune system fitness. Remember in bad covid what we observe is vascular system failure, and we know that chronic hyperglycemia damages blood vessels. Combine that with non functional immune systems and this is what you get.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Switzerland has a higher life expectancy than South Korea, and has a very wealthy and healthy population. Spain and Italy have both held the titles of "healthiest country in the world" in recent years. All three have incidence rates more than an order of magnitude larger than South Korea. Wearing respiratory protection equipment protects against respiratory contaminants. Testing people and tracing contacts helps to contain outbreaks. The answer is really that simple. South Korea was one of (if not) the first countries to start an aggressive testing and tracing program. On TV, I watched their citizens line up in cars at mass testing sites months before my multi-billion-dollar healthcare conglomerate here in the US even had testing available at all.
      - hntrowaway837 5y ago
        My country wore masks too, did everybody in SK wore N95s or more?
        kube-system 5y ago
        KF94s are extremely popular in SK, and it was not unusual to see people wearing masks even before the COVID outbreak.
  - hntrowaway837 5y ago
    And what exactly did they do SO much better? My country wore masks, no social gatherings, distancing. What more?
    - kube-system 5y ago
      I'm not sure how I am expected to answer that question without knowing which country you are asking me to compare.
      - hntrowaway837 5y ago
        If you need to know, France. I live in Paris, people here are very docile and obey the rules.
        kube-system 5y ago
        As an outsider looking at France's news about vaccination rates and hesitancy, it certainly doesn't look like your fellow citizens trust public health officials. Although, I've never really had the impression that French people trusted authority. Quite the opposite. But regardless, South Korea acted way quicker than any western democracy to test and trace.
        hntrowaway837 5y ago
        They don't but they obeyed, these are different things. Also France is decently vaccinated, yes some people don't plan to because they distrust government even more after this period.
        kube-system 5y ago
        By comparison, streets in South Korea were reported as being largely empty after around the time of their first COVID death, even though their authorities only suggested people stay home. Sometimes, public health is in the hands of the public.
- yongjik 5y ago
  Are you going to argue that Americans were much healthier (or, maybe, Koreans were much less healthier) six years ago? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome_outbreak_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Middle_East_respiratory_s... Government response is a critical part of handling these diseases. We just spent a whole year running this experiment globally.
  - hntrowaway837 5y ago
    It depends on the disease, covid is immensely correlated with diabetes / metabolic syndrome, which is rampant in many western countries with America at the top.
  - hntrowaway837 5y ago
    My government had a very prompt response with some of the harshest lockdowns, and I observed people respecting the rules. I can't not believe my eyes.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      That was only the first time, and only after the virus was everywhere. SK reacted much more rapidly when it initially came to them. Furthermore, Schengen. SK are for all intents and purposes an island, and everything and everyone must come by either boat or plane, which helps with control.

thinkingemote 5y ago

It's behavioural modification, and it actually works. The aim is to encourage people to do certain things. To that end, restricting various things which on their own seem nonsensical, actually becomes justified if it changes behaviour. It's also "optics" which is mainly psychological.

hntrowaway837 5y ago
I happen to believe it's only optics, and frankly am disturbed to find myself in a fully postmodern society where only appearances and posturing matter.

pie420 5y ago

What's not to understand? The numbers in Korea are low because everyone is willing to sacrifice their personal freedom and convenience for the common good. They vigilantly wear masks, socially distance, follow guidelines, and abstain from K-Pop dancing at gyms and running fast on the treadmill when their health departments ask that of them. Americans will happily let more people die if it means they get to go to the gym without a mask. It's really that simple.

hntrowaway837 5y ago
You don't think it has anything to do with the awful physical and mental health of Americans, as opposed to not following the rules? And mind you, I'm not in American but in another western nation where I've observed with my own eyes that people have followed all the stupid rules, regardless of enthusiasm, but they respected them, and the outcome has been just as disproportionately bad.
- Gosper 5y ago
  We have completely different observations. I spent last December in London and saw scant respect for the rules during the second wave. A minority of people wore masks, and few of those wore them properly. I was invited to a few house parties and festive gatherings. Then I spent January in Paris IIIe where mask compliance was much better, but the streets and supermarkets were heaving before the daily curfew. Squeezing down aisles to buy supplies for dinner. Friends publicly complied with the rules but had big house parties every weekend. I departed in shock and with an understanding of the European case numbers. There was no discipline, everyone seemed too fed up and bored to care anymore. Abstract anonymous others be damned. Returning to zeroth world east Asia was a relief. Everyone, and I mean 100% of everyone, wears masks properly. That originally happened before any official requirement. People go out when there are zero cases, but when a community transmission case happens the streets go quiet for a while, cases disappear, then nearly normal life resumes. While health might play a part, discipline, a sense of community respect, and a competent administration seem far more important.
samatman 5y ago
I disagree, I think it was 95% being a de-facto island and shutting down international travel without aggressive quarantine upon arrival. Why, you ask? Well I was living in Hawaii during the pandemic, we're Americans, and we had very similar results through the end of June 2020, nearly extirpated the virus in fact. Unfortunately the US Military couldn't be compelled to follow restrictions, and a huge outbreak in Pearl Harbor escaped containment and ruined all that hard work.