4 ms·

What's defeatist about it? "This fucking sucks" is to social progress what "this is odd" is to science. Furthermore, "This sucks" implies room for improvement,

What's defeatist about it? "This fucking sucks" is to social progress what "this is odd" is to science. Furthermore, "This sucks" implies room for improvement, whereas "This is impressive" implies no great need for improvement. Being defeatist would be to not even criticize such shoulder patting because nothing can possibly change and this is the best we can do. > Believing in progress does not mean believing that any progress has yet been made. -- Franz Kafka I don't know who said it, but "Those who think they are something have ceased to become something" also springs to mind.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
That quote says nothing that evokes "room for improvement" to me. It demeans modern civilization's achievements to plastic vomit and microwave hotdogs. It also mocks hope for the future of our ability to change by then. Which is pretty bullshit because the rate of all those things is declining. Kafka's quote there is also pretty shit. Progressive sociological and technological change is difficult. We have made significant progress. We have a long way to go. Crying that we have achieved nothing diminishes large achievements that you take for granted.
- howaboutnope 5y ago
  We treat people the same way. If someone can sing very well or is very rich, but is also a murderer or rapist, those negative traits tend to be how we categorize them. And that's even if they don't murder or rape for 364 days per year. > It also mocks hope for the future of our ability to change by then. Which is pretty bullshit because the rate of all those things is declining. If you really think this quote is just about sneakers with lights in the heels, I can't help you. > If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality. -- Stephen Hawking > Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces. -- Jean-Paul Marat > The frightening coincidence of the modern population explosion with the discovery of technical devices that, through automation, will make large sections of the population 'superfluous' even in terms of labor, and that, through nuclear energy, make it possible to deal with this twofold threat by the use of instruments beside which Hitler's gassing installations look like an evil child's fumbling toys, should be enough to make us tremble. -- Hannah Arendt If someone, rather than trembling, speaks of how it's better than it ever was.. I frankly couldn't care less what they consider "shit".
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    These quotes are even less coherent with whatever thesis you're trying to convey. Like... I'm pretty sure even Jean-Paul Marat would believe things are better now than pre-french revolution Paris, or say, reign of terror paris. Things are far from perfect, but they're definitely improving on many, many metrics. Wealth inequality is a (growing) problem, but I'd still rather be poor today than poor a few hundred years ago.
    - howaboutnope 5y ago
      > I'd still rather be poor today than poor a few hundred years ago. That's super interesting. Thanks for your input.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

That quote says nothing that evokes "room for improvement" to me. It demeans modern civilization's achievements to plastic vomit and microwave hotdogs. It also mocks hope for the future of our ability to change by then. Which is pretty bullshit because the rate of all those things is declining. Kafka's quote there is also pretty shit. Progressive sociological and technological change is difficult. We have made significant progress. We have a long way to go. Crying that we have achieved nothing diminishes large achievements that you take for granted.

howaboutnope 5y ago
We treat people the same way. If someone can sing very well or is very rich, but is also a murderer or rapist, those negative traits tend to be how we categorize them. And that's even if they don't murder or rape for 364 days per year. > It also mocks hope for the future of our ability to change by then. Which is pretty bullshit because the rate of all those things is declining. If you really think this quote is just about sneakers with lights in the heels, I can't help you. > If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality. -- Stephen Hawking > Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces. -- Jean-Paul Marat > The frightening coincidence of the modern population explosion with the discovery of technical devices that, through automation, will make large sections of the population 'superfluous' even in terms of labor, and that, through nuclear energy, make it possible to deal with this twofold threat by the use of instruments beside which Hitler's gassing installations look like an evil child's fumbling toys, should be enough to make us tremble. -- Hannah Arendt If someone, rather than trembling, speaks of how it's better than it ever was.. I frankly couldn't care less what they consider "shit".
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  These quotes are even less coherent with whatever thesis you're trying to convey. Like... I'm pretty sure even Jean-Paul Marat would believe things are better now than pre-french revolution Paris, or say, reign of terror paris. Things are far from perfect, but they're definitely improving on many, many metrics. Wealth inequality is a (growing) problem, but I'd still rather be poor today than poor a few hundred years ago.
  - howaboutnope 5y ago
    > I'd still rather be poor today than poor a few hundred years ago. That's super interesting. Thanks for your input.