5 ms·

I assumed with the shortages that these went up in price. Or more specifically the link I previously used to buy node d1 mini has gone from $3 to $8. Guess I sh

I assumed with the shortages that these went up in price. Or more specifically the link I previously used to buy node d1 mini has gone from $3 to $8. Guess I should have looked harder. I might pull the trigger and buy 10 of these for all sorts of purposes. On a side note, these made a bad taste in my mouth for Arduino. It's making me think all Brand names should be a red flag.

detaro 5y ago
> On a side note, these made a bad taste in my mouth for Arduino. Why?
- dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
  Probably because the official version seems more overpriced than Apple memory upgrades.
  - bityard 5y ago
    When you buy a branded Arduino, you're supporting the people who develop the hardware, software, libraries, documentation and learning resources, community platforms, and educational outreach.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
      I know, and yet the fact that I can buy a Chinese clone literally 10x cheaper makes it seem a bit off. I mean, I happily spend $35 on a Raspbery Pi and don't feel it's overpriced.
      - parsecs 5y ago
        That's a good part thanks to the fact that nobody other than RPi Foundation can get those Broadcom microprocessors for cheap. This fact really sets apart the money making ability of those two companies.
        hytdstd 5y ago
        I'm not sure that RPi foundation's skill is just in shmoozing Broadcom-- they just released their $4 Pico board, which seems to be their own design.
      - krastanov 5y ago
        The educational materials, documentation, and software support are the main reason for the markup. I really enjoy the Espressif boards, but I have faced many undocumented bugs or incomplete features on them and have had to frequently manually modify the IDE for them to work. No such problems with Arduino/Adafruit/Sparkfun, which also create high quality educational materials (and yes, cost 4x (not 10x) more).
    - II2II 5y ago
      It is important and people should be willing to pay for that if they desire it. It is also important to offer products that don't offer the same degree of support if they do not want it. Ten years ago, I happily paid for an Arduino. I was interested in microcontrollers for about a decade at that point. Even though microcontrollers were inexpensive, I didn't get into them previously since I needed that extra support. Yet the Arduino development board and IDE provided that support in a form I found palatable at a price I could bear. (There were certainly alternatives that provided something similar, but they were expensive. There were certainly alternatives that were inexpensive, but they lacked support.) Ten years later, the situation is different. More experience means that I don't need as much support. For the most part, I just want a development board that I can solder a header onto. It's something that I may be willing to pay $10 for, but it is much harder to justify at twice the price. It looks like this is something that the Raspberry Pi Foundation realized with the Pico. The development tools are better compared to those provided by a microcontroller vendor than with those provided by Arduino. The board's price is better compared to those of eastern companies than western ones. The reality is that we need both. The reality is that western boards will probably be more expensive than eastern ones, but the price differential need not be so large when similar products are offered. EDIT: clarification.
      - jjeaff 5y ago
        If everyone goes with the cheap Chinese clone, you can't have either. Because those cheap clones are so cheap because there is little to no R&D required. No software stack to create, etc. Because all of that work is being done by the more expensive, original brands. Support is likely only a small part of the cost.
        II2II 5y ago
        I have to disagree with your blanket statement. In some cases what you say is true, the cheap clone is piggybacking on the R&D of someone else. Yet the situation is definitely not so clearcut in the case of many development boards. The heart of a development board is the MCU. Assuming a genuine component is being used, the software stack is typically provided by the vendor of the MCU. The supporting circuitry is either well known or provided in the vendor's datasheets. In the case of basic boards, there is not much R&D happening. It is also worth noting that the software stack for many boards is open source. Let's ignore the compilers. They're typically based upon GCC, thus open source, but they are typically supported by the MCU vendor which is supported by MCU sales. Consider something like Arduino and MicroPython. Some board vendors undoubtedly invest in them, but it is open source. Others can use the products of their labours. Equally important, others can contribute to them. The board vendors who invest in the software also benefit from contributions. On top of all of that, Chinese firms aren't the only ones making clones and Chinese firms do more than create clones. For example: I haven't heard anything about Espressif parts being clones of original brands.
- blhack 5y ago
  These cheap board have turned me sour on some of the brand name stuff. First of all the cheap Chinese boards are far more innovative than what I see coming out of the US. If there is something you can imagine doing with an ESP32, there is a good chance somebody in China is making a pre fabbed dev board for you that has exactly the peripherals you already need on it And they’re selling it for $8. The US equivalents which seem to do way less, last cost $50-100. I get it, and I do try to support those US companies as much as I can, but when I’m putting together a workshop and need 10 boards, it goes from impossible to “I can give every student their own board and they can keep it at the end”. These things are educational tools for me. The cost matters a lot.
  - dtwest 5y ago
    Not trying to take away from your main point but isn't Arduino Italian?
    - parsecs 5y ago
      I think he's referring more to the Arduino/Genuino ecosystem rather than solely the Arduino company itself and its products.
  - spfzero 5y ago
    Cypress sells PSoC dev/proto boards for as little as 4.99 IIRC, for Cortex M0+ chips. Lots of periphs on-chip and I/Os but not a lot of hw adapters. I've used one of their $10 PSoC 5 boards before for test automation. They do sell more expensive boards but those generally have detachable programmers, capacitive touch and lots of extra hardware.

detaro 5y ago

> On a side note, these made a bad taste in my mouth for Arduino. Why?

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
Probably because the official version seems more overpriced than Apple memory upgrades.
- bityard 5y ago
  When you buy a branded Arduino, you're supporting the people who develop the hardware, software, libraries, documentation and learning resources, community platforms, and educational outreach.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
    I know, and yet the fact that I can buy a Chinese clone literally 10x cheaper makes it seem a bit off. I mean, I happily spend $35 on a Raspbery Pi and don't feel it's overpriced.
    - parsecs 5y ago
      That's a good part thanks to the fact that nobody other than RPi Foundation can get those Broadcom microprocessors for cheap. This fact really sets apart the money making ability of those two companies.
      - hytdstd 5y ago
        I'm not sure that RPi foundation's skill is just in shmoozing Broadcom-- they just released their $4 Pico board, which seems to be their own design.
    - krastanov 5y ago
      The educational materials, documentation, and software support are the main reason for the markup. I really enjoy the Espressif boards, but I have faced many undocumented bugs or incomplete features on them and have had to frequently manually modify the IDE for them to work. No such problems with Arduino/Adafruit/Sparkfun, which also create high quality educational materials (and yes, cost 4x (not 10x) more).
  - II2II 5y ago
    It is important and people should be willing to pay for that if they desire it. It is also important to offer products that don't offer the same degree of support if they do not want it. Ten years ago, I happily paid for an Arduino. I was interested in microcontrollers for about a decade at that point. Even though microcontrollers were inexpensive, I didn't get into them previously since I needed that extra support. Yet the Arduino development board and IDE provided that support in a form I found palatable at a price I could bear. (There were certainly alternatives that provided something similar, but they were expensive. There were certainly alternatives that were inexpensive, but they lacked support.) Ten years later, the situation is different. More experience means that I don't need as much support. For the most part, I just want a development board that I can solder a header onto. It's something that I may be willing to pay $10 for, but it is much harder to justify at twice the price. It looks like this is something that the Raspberry Pi Foundation realized with the Pico. The development tools are better compared to those provided by a microcontroller vendor than with those provided by Arduino. The board's price is better compared to those of eastern companies than western ones. The reality is that we need both. The reality is that western boards will probably be more expensive than eastern ones, but the price differential need not be so large when similar products are offered. EDIT: clarification.
    - jjeaff 5y ago
      If everyone goes with the cheap Chinese clone, you can't have either. Because those cheap clones are so cheap because there is little to no R&D required. No software stack to create, etc. Because all of that work is being done by the more expensive, original brands. Support is likely only a small part of the cost.
      - II2II 5y ago
        I have to disagree with your blanket statement. In some cases what you say is true, the cheap clone is piggybacking on the R&D of someone else. Yet the situation is definitely not so clearcut in the case of many development boards. The heart of a development board is the MCU. Assuming a genuine component is being used, the software stack is typically provided by the vendor of the MCU. The supporting circuitry is either well known or provided in the vendor's datasheets. In the case of basic boards, there is not much R&D happening. It is also worth noting that the software stack for many boards is open source. Let's ignore the compilers. They're typically based upon GCC, thus open source, but they are typically supported by the MCU vendor which is supported by MCU sales. Consider something like Arduino and MicroPython. Some board vendors undoubtedly invest in them, but it is open source. Others can use the products of their labours. Equally important, others can contribute to them. The board vendors who invest in the software also benefit from contributions. On top of all of that, Chinese firms aren't the only ones making clones and Chinese firms do more than create clones. For example: I haven't heard anything about Espressif parts being clones of original brands.
blhack 5y ago
These cheap board have turned me sour on some of the brand name stuff. First of all the cheap Chinese boards are far more innovative than what I see coming out of the US. If there is something you can imagine doing with an ESP32, there is a good chance somebody in China is making a pre fabbed dev board for you that has exactly the peripherals you already need on it And they’re selling it for $8. The US equivalents which seem to do way less, last cost $50-100. I get it, and I do try to support those US companies as much as I can, but when I’m putting together a workshop and need 10 boards, it goes from impossible to “I can give every student their own board and they can keep it at the end”. These things are educational tools for me. The cost matters a lot.
- dtwest 5y ago
  Not trying to take away from your main point but isn't Arduino Italian?
  - parsecs 5y ago
    I think he's referring more to the Arduino/Genuino ecosystem rather than solely the Arduino company itself and its products.
- spfzero 5y ago
  Cypress sells PSoC dev/proto boards for as little as 4.99 IIRC, for Cortex M0+ chips. Lots of periphs on-chip and I/Os but not a lot of hw adapters. I've used one of their $10 PSoC 5 boards before for test automation. They do sell more expensive boards but those generally have detachable programmers, capacitive touch and lots of extra hardware.