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Personally I think that at least one book is missing: "Pragmatics of Human Communication: A Study of Interactional Patterns, Pathologies and Paradoxes" by Paul

by Pamar 5y ago

Personally I think that at least one book is missing: "Pragmatics of Human Communication: A Study of Interactional Patterns, Pathologies and Paradoxes" by Paul Watzlawick (1) On the other hand it could very well be the case that the two main points of the book(2) are discussed also in one or more of the 10 listed in the OP. 1) https://www.goodreads.com/it/book/show/89200.Pragmatics_of_Human_Communication https://www.goodreads.com/it/book/show/89200.Pragmatics_of_H... 2) The two points being: - What Communication and Meta-communication are, what purpose they serve and how these are a uniquely human trait. - The role of the therapist in treating dysfunctional families.

karmakaze 5y ago
TIL Meta-communication: > It is based on the idea that the same message accompanied by different meta-communication can mean something entirely different, including its opposite, as in irony. It's the real message, communication via a false message rather than about it.
- Pamar 5y ago
  Watzlawick's take on meta-communication is this, basically: Your cat can communicate to you that he wants some more milk. This is communication. Your cat CANNOT communicate about its own communication, i.e. cannot "say" something like: "hey, you bastard, I meowed for milk 4 times already, are you deaf or just too lazy to pour some for me?". This would be meta-communication, and no animal species can do it. It is like adding a whole extra dimension to it. (The cat example is straight out of the book, as much as I can recall it, at least).
  - karmakaze 5y ago
    Not literally, but is that really true? Your cat could meow in a very different way, gesturing to the milk, then looking at you and scratching. It's not referencing the past communication but obviously the communication has escalated, and this could be due to the first dismissal and not that the cat is that much more hungry. It's not about the milk anymore--what's the difference?
    - Pamar 5y ago
      What I wanted to say is that according to the author, Humans are unique in the way they can "communicate about communication", while any other living being on Earth uses communication just to transfer information: "I am hungry", "I am in heat", "Danger", "I am poisonous, go eat someone else"... Adding the metacommunication layer we can do much much more than just saying "give me the milk". W. says that the meta-communication layer, for humans, is mostly a way to broadcast your own self-image and see how the others react to it. How many different way to ask for milk you can manage? Polite, obsequious, commanding, rude... what are you trying to say to the guy handling the milk, besides the simple fact that you want some? Are you in a position of power? or are you appealing to his kindness? So the reason the cat does not need this extra layer is because he only wants his milk, and it is not trying to impress you about his own coolness, or how erudite he is, and so on.
      - beagle3 5y ago
        I’ve raised both dogs and cats. They most definitely have multiple ways to ask for food, or to go for a walk, or to say they are sick. They can do it patiently, timidly, demandingly, angrily, etc. and there’s a progression: they might not say “I’ve asked nicely, you idiot, and you didn’t respond, so now I’m no longer asking nicely” - with words, but they do act it out.
        Pamar 5y ago
        Please read the book if you want to really argue this and the other points: I am not the author, I have to titles pertaining to psychology (or ethology/animal behaviour) so I might misrepresent the topic. You, on the other hand, may very well be a workd-renowned expert on canine/feline communication but in this specific case are barking up the wrong tree: the cat example is not the main topic but more of an example/metaphor.
        beagle3 5y ago
        I was only responding to the comment, which may or may not represent the book. I don’t care enough either way, except to say I find the example/metaphor not convincing enough to consider reading the book.

by Pamar 5y ago

karmakaze 5y ago

TIL Meta-communication: > It is based on the idea that the same message accompanied by different meta-communication can mean something entirely different, including its opposite, as in irony. It's the real message, communication via a false message rather than about it.

Pamar 5y ago
Watzlawick's take on meta-communication is this, basically: Your cat can communicate to you that he wants some more milk. This is communication. Your cat CANNOT communicate about its own communication, i.e. cannot "say" something like: "hey, you bastard, I meowed for milk 4 times already, are you deaf or just too lazy to pour some for me?". This would be meta-communication, and no animal species can do it. It is like adding a whole extra dimension to it. (The cat example is straight out of the book, as much as I can recall it, at least).
- karmakaze 5y ago
  Not literally, but is that really true? Your cat could meow in a very different way, gesturing to the milk, then looking at you and scratching. It's not referencing the past communication but obviously the communication has escalated, and this could be due to the first dismissal and not that the cat is that much more hungry. It's not about the milk anymore--what's the difference?
  - Pamar 5y ago
    What I wanted to say is that according to the author, Humans are unique in the way they can "communicate about communication", while any other living being on Earth uses communication just to transfer information: "I am hungry", "I am in heat", "Danger", "I am poisonous, go eat someone else"... Adding the metacommunication layer we can do much much more than just saying "give me the milk". W. says that the meta-communication layer, for humans, is mostly a way to broadcast your own self-image and see how the others react to it. How many different way to ask for milk you can manage? Polite, obsequious, commanding, rude... what are you trying to say to the guy handling the milk, besides the simple fact that you want some? Are you in a position of power? or are you appealing to his kindness? So the reason the cat does not need this extra layer is because he only wants his milk, and it is not trying to impress you about his own coolness, or how erudite he is, and so on.
    - beagle3 5y ago
      I’ve raised both dogs and cats. They most definitely have multiple ways to ask for food, or to go for a walk, or to say they are sick. They can do it patiently, timidly, demandingly, angrily, etc. and there’s a progression: they might not say “I’ve asked nicely, you idiot, and you didn’t respond, so now I’m no longer asking nicely” - with words, but they do act it out.
      - Pamar 5y ago
        Please read the book if you want to really argue this and the other points: I am not the author, I have to titles pertaining to psychology (or ethology/animal behaviour) so I might misrepresent the topic. You, on the other hand, may very well be a workd-renowned expert on canine/feline communication but in this specific case are barking up the wrong tree: the cat example is not the main topic but more of an example/metaphor.
        beagle3 5y ago
        I was only responding to the comment, which may or may not represent the book. I don’t care enough either way, except to say I find the example/metaphor not convincing enough to consider reading the book.