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>>> "What is your day job, Kyle?" "This is my day job. I'm a media artist, I just write a lot of code. I spend most of my time making open source tools with ot

by jl2718 5y ago

>>> "What is your day job, Kyle?" "This is my day job. I'm a media artist, I just write a lot of code. I spend most of my time making open source tools with other people." "But how do you make money?" "I get commissions, grants, and live off artist fees from exhibiting work. I fly to conferences and festivals and do workshops and presentations. Sometimes I'll do residencies." <<< This agent and I are both having a ‘Deuce Bigalow’ moment over this. But seriously, is this just bohemian speak for some other source of financial support, or is it actually realistic to make a big city living this way?

dale_glass 5y ago
My brother lives in a well known capital city, and does it like this. He does a bit of everything: illustration, graphics for games, teaching, work for hire, etc. As I understand it, it doesn't pay amazingly well, but he manages. Pretty sure it's a more stressful way of making a living than just working a normal job. Living in a "big city" doesn't mean you're rich. There's cheaper parts of the city, studio apartments, flatmates, and saving up what you can.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  My cousin does something like this as well. I do not, I'm a full-time engineer, family breadwinner, and a homeowner. We talked about our respective budgets a few months ago...they could not be more different. He doesn't have any of the major line items on my monthly budget, which requires on the order of $2,500/mo at a bare minimum, which is easily met by working for 40 hours a week and drawing a dependable paycheck. He does odd jobs, usually various forms of graphic design with Photoshop or Illustrator - making up new menus for a restaurant, logos or website headers and design elements for a small business, T-shirt design for a church retreat or sports league, photoshopping a portrait for someone's anniversary, anything where you'd want someone 'artsy' but don't know who to call. A job might be between $50 and $500, the jobs and contacts come and go. Sometimes he's busy day after day, sometimes he'll go weeks without a job. Weeks without a job, I say! How do you survive? Well, he sublets from a couple friends, but isn't on the lease himself; he usually keeps a month ahead of rent but sometimes can't find the money and will 'get behind', they're generally accommodating; moreso than a bank. He has no mortgage, no car, no car insurance, no car payments, doesn't need a line item for gas and car maintenance because he doesn't drive or commute, doesn't have expensive hobbies, has no cell phone bills (uses a prepaid phone that he tops up and uses as needed/as budgets allow), internet is part of his sublet room, has no TV, no garbage/recycling bills, no lawn care or other services, no home insurance...Critically, he has no health insurance - which sucks come tax season and would really suck if he wasn't a 25 year old in fine health who thinks he's invincible. Relatedly to being an invincible 25-year-old, he has no IRA or 401k. Groceries cost about $200/month, his sublet of one room costs about the same, he doesn't have any other dependents, and if you don't want them there's not really anything else that someone needs to buy. To hire any professional for much of anything costs about $500, in a big city that's basically the minimum price of a day or two of skilled labor. If he can get one job that will pay him that much in any given month, his minimum budget needs are met. Someday, he says, he'll want to move out and settle down and start on a career progression, but he's tried the 40 hour wage slave model and loathed it, and his lifestyle in the big city is fun for now. If by "big city living" you mean all the budget items you'd expect of a homeowner in a small town, but scaled up to downtown living by means of a 6-figure salary, no, this lifestyle won't pay those bills.
thujlife 5y ago
I would guess hes involved with drug traffiking considering he is a "artist".
- berkes 5y ago
  You forgot to add the sarcasm /s. Or did you?
tootie 5y ago
No, this is actually a perfectly viable way to make a living. It depends on what kind of work he's doing. I've hired some professional creative technologists for shows before and they can earn decent rates. This was for a corporate clients doing retail events, but the work they did was still artistic in nature. They can also get hired by musicians, venues, museums, galleries. I know more people who do it as a side thing, but if you're talented and you hustle, it can be a full-time job.
throwawayboise 5y ago
Sounded like he had at least two roomates so while he may have been covering his expenses that doesn't really imply "making a big city living" at least in the way most people would interpret that.
kcimc 5y ago
Hi, I think I can answer (I am Kyle). tl;dr: It barely worked for many years, but I have since been able to find more & larger grants for my art, and get better paying consulting work on the side. Full story—first, income. Some examples from my books around 2011: $10k for a 3-month residency in Japan, $4k for 2 weeks of 14 hour days implementing computer vision and generative graphics as part of a team developing an interactive installation, $3k for 3 weeks of generative sound design work, $500 traveling overseas to give an hour-long talk, $500 traveling overseas to lead a full-day 3d scanning workshop for artists, $50 for an art+tech blog post. Regarding expenses: At the time I was living in a one-floor, 4bd apartment with three other people, $1815 divided 4 ways, about $450. I spent a similar amount each month on food, transportation, and utilities combined. I did not have healthcare. My artwork was digital so it did not require regular material costs, and I had no studio space. Total was closer to $20-25k/year due to additional costs and because I had $170k of college loans and no financial support. All together, I was barely in the black: I had between 8-12 jobs totaling $20-40k each year, from 2010-2014. My bank account hovered between $1-4k until 2015 when I started pitching larger projects that saw more income and also allowed me to start paying others. Hope that answers your questions, happy to share more.

by jl2718 5y ago

dale_glass 5y ago

My brother lives in a well known capital city, and does it like this. He does a bit of everything: illustration, graphics for games, teaching, work for hire, etc. As I understand it, it doesn't pay amazingly well, but he manages. Pretty sure it's a more stressful way of making a living than just working a normal job. Living in a "big city" doesn't mean you're rich. There's cheaper parts of the city, studio apartments, flatmates, and saving up what you can.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago
My cousin does something like this as well. I do not, I'm a full-time engineer, family breadwinner, and a homeowner. We talked about our respective budgets a few months ago...they could not be more different. He doesn't have any of the major line items on my monthly budget, which requires on the order of $2,500/mo at a bare minimum, which is easily met by working for 40 hours a week and drawing a dependable paycheck. He does odd jobs, usually various forms of graphic design with Photoshop or Illustrator - making up new menus for a restaurant, logos or website headers and design elements for a small business, T-shirt design for a church retreat or sports league, photoshopping a portrait for someone's anniversary, anything where you'd want someone 'artsy' but don't know who to call. A job might be between $50 and $500, the jobs and contacts come and go. Sometimes he's busy day after day, sometimes he'll go weeks without a job. Weeks without a job, I say! How do you survive? Well, he sublets from a couple friends, but isn't on the lease himself; he usually keeps a month ahead of rent but sometimes can't find the money and will 'get behind', they're generally accommodating; moreso than a bank. He has no mortgage, no car, no car insurance, no car payments, doesn't need a line item for gas and car maintenance because he doesn't drive or commute, doesn't have expensive hobbies, has no cell phone bills (uses a prepaid phone that he tops up and uses as needed/as budgets allow), internet is part of his sublet room, has no TV, no garbage/recycling bills, no lawn care or other services, no home insurance...Critically, he has no health insurance - which sucks come tax season and would really suck if he wasn't a 25 year old in fine health who thinks he's invincible. Relatedly to being an invincible 25-year-old, he has no IRA or 401k. Groceries cost about $200/month, his sublet of one room costs about the same, he doesn't have any other dependents, and if you don't want them there's not really anything else that someone needs to buy. To hire any professional for much of anything costs about $500, in a big city that's basically the minimum price of a day or two of skilled labor. If he can get one job that will pay him that much in any given month, his minimum budget needs are met. Someday, he says, he'll want to move out and settle down and start on a career progression, but he's tried the 40 hour wage slave model and loathed it, and his lifestyle in the big city is fun for now. If by "big city living" you mean all the budget items you'd expect of a homeowner in a small town, but scaled up to downtown living by means of a 6-figure salary, no, this lifestyle won't pay those bills.

thujlife 5y ago

I would guess hes involved with drug traffiking considering he is a "artist".

berkes 5y ago
You forgot to add the sarcasm /s. Or did you?

tootie 5y ago

No, this is actually a perfectly viable way to make a living. It depends on what kind of work he's doing. I've hired some professional creative technologists for shows before and they can earn decent rates. This was for a corporate clients doing retail events, but the work they did was still artistic in nature. They can also get hired by musicians, venues, museums, galleries. I know more people who do it as a side thing, but if you're talented and you hustle, it can be a full-time job.

throwawayboise 5y ago

Sounded like he had at least two roomates so while he may have been covering his expenses that doesn't really imply "making a big city living" at least in the way most people would interpret that.

kcimc 5y ago

Hi, I think I can answer (I am Kyle). tl;dr: It barely worked for many years, but I have since been able to find more & larger grants for my art, and get better paying consulting work on the side. Full story—first, income. Some examples from my books around 2011: $10k for a 3-month residency in Japan, $4k for 2 weeks of 14 hour days implementing computer vision and generative graphics as part of a team developing an interactive installation, $3k for 3 weeks of generative sound design work, $500 traveling overseas to give an hour-long talk, $500 traveling overseas to lead a full-day 3d scanning workshop for artists, $50 for an art+tech blog post. Regarding expenses: At the time I was living in a one-floor, 4bd apartment with three other people, $1815 divided 4 ways, about $450. I spent a similar amount each month on food, transportation, and utilities combined. I did not have healthcare. My artwork was digital so it did not require regular material costs, and I had no studio space. Total was closer to $20-25k/year due to additional costs and because I had $170k of college loans and no financial support. All together, I was barely in the black: I had between 8-12 jobs totaling $20-40k each year, from 2010-2014. My bank account hovered between $1-4k until 2015 when I started pitching larger projects that saw more income and also allowed me to start paying others. Hope that answers your questions, happy to share more.