5 ms·

It is, he never asks people for there consent. Even apple does that (although in a never read privacy policy) but they do

gizmo 5y ago
There are cameras on every street corner. At ATMs. In every store. On public transportation. I never consented to any of this. Art projects that confront people with the reality that they're being recorded and watched are vital to remind people that privacy still matters, and that we should struggle to regain some of the privacy expectations we've lost.
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  Art projects still have ethics to them. He could’ve put a singular art installation somewhere for people to use and have their photo taken while they browse a specific art installation. Violating people’s privacy in order to remind them their privacy is important sounds like the sort of “I’m harming you for your own good” that abusers use.
  - gizmo 5y ago
    Everybody who enters an Apple store is already being recorded by hidden video cameras without their consent. Loss prevention. Unless you think being photographed in addition to being unknowingly video recorded is a grave privacy violation, I don't get your point.
    - berkes 5y ago
      > Unless you think being photographed in addition Author also emphasises that visitors are making photographs of the shop, and other visitors in that shop. Without consent. I'm trying to understand where the line lies. As I don't see it, but gauging by the heated reactions in the threads here, many apparently see a clear and obvious line.
    - merpnderp 5y ago
      Those security cameras aren’t hidden and always have a sign somewhere in the store noting their presence. The difference is security cameras announce their presence by being visible and obvious. Installing spyware on an Apple Store laptop to capture people’s images and upload them for your own amusement is not obvious, was never announced and most people would find gross and abusive. At the very least the security cameras come with liability if abused and cause harm to the customer.
      - sellyme 5y ago
        > Those security cameras aren’t hidden and always have a sign somewhere in the store noting their presence. My understanding is that this is not a legal requirement and is rather something stores do solely to scare away potential burglars.
    - jameshart 5y ago
      Apple don’t post video montages of their security footage online and ask people to look at the faces of the shoppers and see if they can read some meaning into the lack of emotion on their faces. When you enter an Apple store you are trusting Apple implicitly with your safety and security during your visit. That they might take security video as part of that is a reasonable component of that trust relationship. Being forced to participate as a model in an art exhibit by a random third party with no relationship to Apple violates that trust. It’s no wonder Apple would have a concern. It’s not remotely comparable to security surveillance, and the artist doesn’t even seem particularly to be trying to draw that comparison, so I’m not sure why people are seeing this as about ‘always being on camera’.
      - NotEvil 5y ago
        Because that's the point. The art is about telling people that they are being recorded. Just that apple won't brodcast there faces doesn't mean no one will see them. Or they are not being recorded
        jameshart 5y ago
        That wasn’t how I read the article. The artist seems fascinated by the way people look emotionless when interacting with computers, not with drawing attention to surveillance mechanisms. He wanted to create a moment of connection between the people in the store and commented mainly on how people ignored one another and kept looking at the computer. I really don’t know where people get the idea the artist’s intent was particularly focused on corporate surveillance. Of course, death of the artist and all that - if people read it as a piece about surveillance capitalism then that’s what the art is about regardless of what the artist thinks it’s about.
  - kcimc 5y ago
    OP here. Just to clarify, this piece was not primarily designed for the Apple Store audience. I felt that it was important to exhibit the photos in the store, but I knew that the majority of the folks who heard about it would see it online. In the exhibition at the store, people first saw a photo of themselves, with no knowledge that they were posted to the internet. Online, people saw photos of folks in the store. If you have spent time in a big city like NYC, you might recognize the feelings of anonymity and privacy-in-public that I was drawing on. There are certainly "I'm harming you for your own good" style art installations I've made. For example, I had a piece called "Wifi Whisperer" around 2016 that sniffed all the open wifi traffic in a cafe, and a little speaker in the corner would describe what it sniffed. https://soundcloud.com/kyle-mcdonald/whisper https://soundcloud.com/kyle-mcdonald/whisper I still think there is a place for non-consensual art to surprise and inform, especially in the physical context of an art exhibition or festival. But I also feel this work tends towards provoking fear and anger over any more helpful reactions. And there's the constant danger that in the process of crossing a boundary of consent, or in breaking a social contract that you might do real, even irreversible harm. So instead with projects like https://facework.app/ https://facework.app/ I find ways to critique face classification, but in a way that everything happens in-browser. Sometimes it's possible to have the feeling of boundary crossing without the dangers.
- atombender 5y ago
  Those cameras don't publish their recordings to the Internet, so your analogy is flawed. You can argue that such cameras are also violations of privacy, of course, but there's a big difference between recording and broadcasting — no matter if the intent of the broadcasting is good.
  - gizmo 5y ago
    Yes, there's a big difference. In one case it's an art stunt to draw people's attention to a social question, and in the other case maybe security employees are leering at customers through cameras for their own perverse enjoyment, but who knows because there is zero transparency or accountability.
- merpnderp 5y ago
  The difference is you know those cameras are there and that they’re recording. It’s their single purpose for public safety. You don’t expect the laptop at Apple to be uploading your image to some sick weirdos “art project”.

gizmo 5y ago

There are cameras on every street corner. At ATMs. In every store. On public transportation. I never consented to any of this. Art projects that confront people with the reality that they're being recorded and watched are vital to remind people that privacy still matters, and that we should struggle to regain some of the privacy expectations we've lost.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
Art projects still have ethics to them. He could’ve put a singular art installation somewhere for people to use and have their photo taken while they browse a specific art installation. Violating people’s privacy in order to remind them their privacy is important sounds like the sort of “I’m harming you for your own good” that abusers use.
- gizmo 5y ago
  Everybody who enters an Apple store is already being recorded by hidden video cameras without their consent. Loss prevention. Unless you think being photographed in addition to being unknowingly video recorded is a grave privacy violation, I don't get your point.
  - berkes 5y ago
    > Unless you think being photographed in addition Author also emphasises that visitors are making photographs of the shop, and other visitors in that shop. Without consent. I'm trying to understand where the line lies. As I don't see it, but gauging by the heated reactions in the threads here, many apparently see a clear and obvious line.
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    Those security cameras aren’t hidden and always have a sign somewhere in the store noting their presence. The difference is security cameras announce their presence by being visible and obvious. Installing spyware on an Apple Store laptop to capture people’s images and upload them for your own amusement is not obvious, was never announced and most people would find gross and abusive. At the very least the security cameras come with liability if abused and cause harm to the customer.
    - sellyme 5y ago
      > Those security cameras aren’t hidden and always have a sign somewhere in the store noting their presence. My understanding is that this is not a legal requirement and is rather something stores do solely to scare away potential burglars.
  - jameshart 5y ago
    Apple don’t post video montages of their security footage online and ask people to look at the faces of the shoppers and see if they can read some meaning into the lack of emotion on their faces. When you enter an Apple store you are trusting Apple implicitly with your safety and security during your visit. That they might take security video as part of that is a reasonable component of that trust relationship. Being forced to participate as a model in an art exhibit by a random third party with no relationship to Apple violates that trust. It’s no wonder Apple would have a concern. It’s not remotely comparable to security surveillance, and the artist doesn’t even seem particularly to be trying to draw that comparison, so I’m not sure why people are seeing this as about ‘always being on camera’.
    - NotEvil 5y ago
      Because that's the point. The art is about telling people that they are being recorded. Just that apple won't brodcast there faces doesn't mean no one will see them. Or they are not being recorded
      - jameshart 5y ago
        That wasn’t how I read the article. The artist seems fascinated by the way people look emotionless when interacting with computers, not with drawing attention to surveillance mechanisms. He wanted to create a moment of connection between the people in the store and commented mainly on how people ignored one another and kept looking at the computer. I really don’t know where people get the idea the artist’s intent was particularly focused on corporate surveillance. Of course, death of the artist and all that - if people read it as a piece about surveillance capitalism then that’s what the art is about regardless of what the artist thinks it’s about.
- kcimc 5y ago
  OP here. Just to clarify, this piece was not primarily designed for the Apple Store audience. I felt that it was important to exhibit the photos in the store, but I knew that the majority of the folks who heard about it would see it online. In the exhibition at the store, people first saw a photo of themselves, with no knowledge that they were posted to the internet. Online, people saw photos of folks in the store. If you have spent time in a big city like NYC, you might recognize the feelings of anonymity and privacy-in-public that I was drawing on. There are certainly "I'm harming you for your own good" style art installations I've made. For example, I had a piece called "Wifi Whisperer" around 2016 that sniffed all the open wifi traffic in a cafe, and a little speaker in the corner would describe what it sniffed. https://soundcloud.com/kyle-mcdonald/whisper https://soundcloud.com/kyle-mcdonald/whisper I still think there is a place for non-consensual art to surprise and inform, especially in the physical context of an art exhibition or festival. But I also feel this work tends towards provoking fear and anger over any more helpful reactions. And there's the constant danger that in the process of crossing a boundary of consent, or in breaking a social contract that you might do real, even irreversible harm. So instead with projects like https://facework.app/ https://facework.app/ I find ways to critique face classification, but in a way that everything happens in-browser. Sometimes it's possible to have the feeling of boundary crossing without the dangers.
atombender 5y ago
Those cameras don't publish their recordings to the Internet, so your analogy is flawed. You can argue that such cameras are also violations of privacy, of course, but there's a big difference between recording and broadcasting — no matter if the intent of the broadcasting is good.
- gizmo 5y ago
  Yes, there's a big difference. In one case it's an art stunt to draw people's attention to a social question, and in the other case maybe security employees are leering at customers through cameras for their own perverse enjoyment, but who knows because there is zero transparency or accountability.
merpnderp 5y ago
The difference is you know those cameras are there and that they’re recording. It’s their single purpose for public safety. You don’t expect the laptop at Apple to be uploading your image to some sick weirdos “art project”.