5 ms·

I have to say, I find this bit amusing: "That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I'd point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if

I have to say, I find this bit amusing: "That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I'd point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to you, you soon discount everything they say." The last 4 years of US politics (and 20? of UK politics) have given the lie to that belief. [edit: added UK politics because they're just as bad]

Tarsul 5y ago
It's the same with typical sales persons: Even though they constantly exaggerate, you want to believe (unless there's animosity). So you take it into account that they exaggerate, but not by as much as they do exaggerate. Which means it's still better for them to do it than not. At least that's my impression of these dynamics, would love good studies about it.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  It's well studied that over time people believe lies even if they know they are lies, because we remember things by association, not rigorously. We easily remember that X is associated with Y, but it's hard to remember if the correlation is to Y or to NOT Y.
  - visarga 5y ago
    You mean people are not perfect causal reasoning agents? The shock. /s So many AI models have been ridiculed for the same flaw - learning correlations.
Dah00n 5y ago
Are you saying most people would answer Yes to "Are politicians trustworthy?" because then I clearly live in a completely different bubble than you do and have a very different interpretation of TV speaking heads talking about the issue. In my bubble at least 90% would say that US politicians are not trustworthy (no idea about UK). Not much different if you ask about Trump or Biden either.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  I kind of see it both ways. 90% of people would call all politicians liars, but every person in that 90% has their pet politician that can do no wrong.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    I'm guessing a "pet politician" is a very American Thing -though I have nothing to base it on but my own opinion- since US politics are very much based on specific persons while I'm used to people looking at politics as a big group of people they vote for out of many parties. There are currently 15 parties to vote for here in Denmark, with a government on average being based on 2-3 of them. A single person rarely get more votes than 1% in our elections because most vote for the party, not the person.
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      I'm speaking specifically about individuals people vote for among the hoard in any given party or set of parties. For instance, my grandfather who thinks all politicians are crooks, believes almost everything Trump says, and my girlfriend who likewise thinks all politicians are liars, takes everything AOC says as gospel. Both disagree with a lot of what the respective parties do, or want.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  Eh, your view of other people's cynicism is too absolute. People distrust politicians ... except. Except for their favorite politician, except for their party, except for the ones they voted for, except... You see this with Congress writ large. People hate Congress, its approval ratings are through the floor. But they like their own Congresspeople. Sure, gerrymandering, safe districts, etc, but by and large people are much happier with their own Representatives than everyone else's.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    >Except for their favorite politician, except for their party, except for the ones they voted for, except... As I wrote in another reply I believe this to be A Very American Thing. At least I have never heard of anyone here (in Denmark) seeing themselves as represented by a person. It is more of a party thing. I'm sure I live in a bubble (don't we all) so my experience might not match any official numbers but in my experience people seem to just change to another party at the next election if they feel the representation does not match their expectation. This likely makes it easier not to get caught up in having to defend a specific person that "can do no wrong". But again, I have not looked it up and it is all based on my own experience and intuition. I do know that election day sees a much higher turnout here (~%85) than in the US (>65%?) though, but is it related to distrusting politicians? Who knows.
majormajor 5y ago
If somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to their boss, they just might get promoted! Let's not act like news readers or politicians are different sorts of humans than anyone else.

Tarsul 5y ago

It's the same with typical sales persons: Even though they constantly exaggerate, you want to believe (unless there's animosity). So you take it into account that they exaggerate, but not by as much as they do exaggerate. Which means it's still better for them to do it than not. At least that's my impression of these dynamics, would love good studies about it.

alisonkisk 5y ago
It's well studied that over time people believe lies even if they know they are lies, because we remember things by association, not rigorously. We easily remember that X is associated with Y, but it's hard to remember if the correlation is to Y or to NOT Y.
- visarga 5y ago
  You mean people are not perfect causal reasoning agents? The shock. /s So many AI models have been ridiculed for the same flaw - learning correlations.

Dah00n 5y ago

Are you saying most people would answer Yes to "Are politicians trustworthy?" because then I clearly live in a completely different bubble than you do and have a very different interpretation of TV speaking heads talking about the issue. In my bubble at least 90% would say that US politicians are not trustworthy (no idea about UK). Not much different if you ask about Trump or Biden either.

BobbyJo 5y ago
I kind of see it both ways. 90% of people would call all politicians liars, but every person in that 90% has their pet politician that can do no wrong.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  I'm guessing a "pet politician" is a very American Thing -though I have nothing to base it on but my own opinion- since US politics are very much based on specific persons while I'm used to people looking at politics as a big group of people they vote for out of many parties. There are currently 15 parties to vote for here in Denmark, with a government on average being based on 2-3 of them. A single person rarely get more votes than 1% in our elections because most vote for the party, not the person.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    I'm speaking specifically about individuals people vote for among the hoard in any given party or set of parties. For instance, my grandfather who thinks all politicians are crooks, believes almost everything Trump says, and my girlfriend who likewise thinks all politicians are liars, takes everything AOC says as gospel. Both disagree with a lot of what the respective parties do, or want.
saalweachter 5y ago
Eh, your view of other people's cynicism is too absolute. People distrust politicians ... except. Except for their favorite politician, except for their party, except for the ones they voted for, except... You see this with Congress writ large. People hate Congress, its approval ratings are through the floor. But they like their own Congresspeople. Sure, gerrymandering, safe districts, etc, but by and large people are much happier with their own Representatives than everyone else's.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  >Except for their favorite politician, except for their party, except for the ones they voted for, except... As I wrote in another reply I believe this to be A Very American Thing. At least I have never heard of anyone here (in Denmark) seeing themselves as represented by a person. It is more of a party thing. I'm sure I live in a bubble (don't we all) so my experience might not match any official numbers but in my experience people seem to just change to another party at the next election if they feel the representation does not match their expectation. This likely makes it easier not to get caught up in having to defend a specific person that "can do no wrong". But again, I have not looked it up and it is all based on my own experience and intuition. I do know that election day sees a much higher turnout here (~%85) than in the US (>65%?) though, but is it related to distrusting politicians? Who knows.

majormajor 5y ago

If somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to their boss, they just might get promoted! Let's not act like news readers or politicians are different sorts of humans than anyone else.