3 ms·

What I choose to use energy for is valid and worthwhile. What you choose to use energy for is invalid and wasteful? Maybe we just get on with decarbonizing the

by flgb 5y ago

What I choose to use energy for is valid and worthwhile. What you choose to use energy for is invalid and wasteful? Maybe we just get on with decarbonizing the energy system, make sure everyone is paying for the energy they use, and then we don't have to worry about making moral judgements.

landryraccoon 5y ago
Whether crypto is “valid” or not isn’t the issue. Externalities are. When power plants mine crypto, they are offloading costs to people that gain no benefit in the form of pollution. Therefore there is a reason for everyone else to care. Crypto mining is not free of harm to uninvolved bystanders.
- AngryData 5y ago
  The same thing could be claimed of plenty physical goods though to. How much energy was used to make the aluminum foil I baked on so i don't have to clean the pan? How much money is spend mining gold that im just going to carry around as jewellery that could have instead atleast been mere plating. And when all those things are directly tradable with money, and bitcoins are tradable with money, mining bitcoin is to a consumer no different than mining gold.
  - Mehojid 5y ago
    Your argument doesn't make the other argument more ore less valid. You should always consider how much energy something consumed and how relevant it is for our society. Bitcoin has no future and is not replacing or solving a real problem. Right now it only increaes droughts and crazy weather. Mining gold is totally different than bitcoin. Not sure why you would even argue in this direction. Gold can be recycled which reduces the co2 footprint / makes it more and more useful. Gold also creates emotions and supports our society structure as a symbol on rings. It's critical for scientific discoveries and for computers. And still we need to make sure we mine gold as co2 efficient as possible with as little impact to nature than possible. Equal to bitcoin just that bitcoin doesn't do any of what gold does. My ring is a token to my love to mi wife and will be recycled in 80 years. Bitcoin is producing co2 when mined and whenever transfered and the base system needs to run 24/7 even if none is doing anything on the network. Die Bitcoin die
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - henearkr 5y ago
    The fact that the same reasoning can be done for other things does not remove the justification of this reasoning. This is why there is advocacy for a lot of eco-friendly behaviors, including those you mention. But the problem of cryptomining is on the heavy side of the harmful behaviors -- and potentially extremely harmful if the frenzy is not curbed, as hinted by this kind of news.
Mehojid 5y ago
Sure let's do this but it will take time and while we wait and accept that bitcoin is part of the problem let's ban bitcoin until this issue is fixed.
alisonkisk 5y ago
Crypto is special because minging crypto makes mining crypto worse. Almost everything else gets more efficient with scale. It's a positive-reinforcing death spiral.

by flgb 5y ago

landryraccoon 5y ago

Whether crypto is “valid” or not isn’t the issue. Externalities are. When power plants mine crypto, they are offloading costs to people that gain no benefit in the form of pollution. Therefore there is a reason for everyone else to care. Crypto mining is not free of harm to uninvolved bystanders.

AngryData 5y ago
The same thing could be claimed of plenty physical goods though to. How much energy was used to make the aluminum foil I baked on so i don't have to clean the pan? How much money is spend mining gold that im just going to carry around as jewellery that could have instead atleast been mere plating. And when all those things are directly tradable with money, and bitcoins are tradable with money, mining bitcoin is to a consumer no different than mining gold.
- Mehojid 5y ago
  Your argument doesn't make the other argument more ore less valid. You should always consider how much energy something consumed and how relevant it is for our society. Bitcoin has no future and is not replacing or solving a real problem. Right now it only increaes droughts and crazy weather. Mining gold is totally different than bitcoin. Not sure why you would even argue in this direction. Gold can be recycled which reduces the co2 footprint / makes it more and more useful. Gold also creates emotions and supports our society structure as a symbol on rings. It's critical for scientific discoveries and for computers. And still we need to make sure we mine gold as co2 efficient as possible with as little impact to nature than possible. Equal to bitcoin just that bitcoin doesn't do any of what gold does. My ring is a token to my love to mi wife and will be recycled in 80 years. Bitcoin is producing co2 when mined and whenever transfered and the base system needs to run 24/7 even if none is doing anything on the network. Die Bitcoin die
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- henearkr 5y ago
  The fact that the same reasoning can be done for other things does not remove the justification of this reasoning. This is why there is advocacy for a lot of eco-friendly behaviors, including those you mention. But the problem of cryptomining is on the heavy side of the harmful behaviors -- and potentially extremely harmful if the frenzy is not curbed, as hinted by this kind of news.

Mehojid 5y ago

Sure let's do this but it will take time and while we wait and accept that bitcoin is part of the problem let's ban bitcoin until this issue is fixed.

alisonkisk 5y ago

Crypto is special because minging crypto makes mining crypto worse. Almost everything else gets more efficient with scale. It's a positive-reinforcing death spiral.