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> Your mistake is assuming predatory short sellers don't exist. In the sense you seem to mean, they literally don't. Short sellers cannot drive companies to ba

by Lazare 5y ago

> Your mistake is assuming predatory short sellers don't exist. In the sense you seem to mean, they literally don't. Short sellers cannot drive companies to bankruptcy. > If people want to pay a premium to not loan out their shares, let them and adjust the price accordingly. That's an option available to you. Some brokers do let you opt in and out of lending shares. Of course, it comes with a cost.

OnlineGladiator 5y ago
> Some brokers do let you opt in and out of lending shares. I'm aware of this, but it's not an option for a retirement account. That's the entire point we're debating, is it not? > Short sellers cannot drive companies to bankruptcy. I honestly don't know how you can believe this. If they drive the price so low that the company is unable to manage its debt they are forced to declare bankruptcy, the short sellers never have to close their positions and they keep all of the profit. So not only can they do it, they have a strong financial incentive to do so.
- Lazare 5y ago
  > I honestly don't know how you can believe this. Well, it's actually pretty easy. 1) In theory, it can't happen. 2) And in practice, it doesn't happen. It doesn't get much more cut and dried than that! > If they drive the price so low that the company is unable to manage its debt ....that's a bit like saying short selling costs lives, because if short sellers drive the price so low that the headquarters catches fire, people might die in the flames. See, the problem here is that driving a share price down doesn't stop you from managing your debt. Which is a key reason why there are no documented cases of short sellers driving healthy companies into bankruptcy.
  - OnlineGladiator 5y ago
    You moved the goalposts from "it's impossible for shortsellers to bankrupt a company" to "it's impossible for shortsellers to bankrupt a healthy company." Rather than continue to argue and get nowhere, let's just disagree. Have a good night.
    - Lazare 5y ago
      Okay, let's steelman the argument then. Short selling a company's shares cannot bankrupt the company. Happier? (Again, I say this because there is no theoretical mechanism by which selling stock short can realistically cause bankruptcy - contrived examples to the contrary. And we know they're contrived examples because it's never actually happened.)
      - OnlineGladiator 5y ago
        What part of "disagree" do you not understand? There is no resolution here. I know you're wrong and you know I'm wrong. QED.

by Lazare 5y ago

OnlineGladiator 5y ago

> Some brokers do let you opt in and out of lending shares. I'm aware of this, but it's not an option for a retirement account. That's the entire point we're debating, is it not? > Short sellers cannot drive companies to bankruptcy. I honestly don't know how you can believe this. If they drive the price so low that the company is unable to manage its debt they are forced to declare bankruptcy, the short sellers never have to close their positions and they keep all of the profit. So not only can they do it, they have a strong financial incentive to do so.

Lazare 5y ago
> I honestly don't know how you can believe this. Well, it's actually pretty easy. 1) In theory, it can't happen. 2) And in practice, it doesn't happen. It doesn't get much more cut and dried than that! > If they drive the price so low that the company is unable to manage its debt ....that's a bit like saying short selling costs lives, because if short sellers drive the price so low that the headquarters catches fire, people might die in the flames. See, the problem here is that driving a share price down doesn't stop you from managing your debt. Which is a key reason why there are no documented cases of short sellers driving healthy companies into bankruptcy.
- OnlineGladiator 5y ago
  You moved the goalposts from "it's impossible for shortsellers to bankrupt a company" to "it's impossible for shortsellers to bankrupt a healthy company." Rather than continue to argue and get nowhere, let's just disagree. Have a good night.
  - Lazare 5y ago
    Okay, let's steelman the argument then. Short selling a company's shares cannot bankrupt the company. Happier? (Again, I say this because there is no theoretical mechanism by which selling stock short can realistically cause bankruptcy - contrived examples to the contrary. And we know they're contrived examples because it's never actually happened.)
    - OnlineGladiator 5y ago
      What part of "disagree" do you not understand? There is no resolution here. I know you're wrong and you know I'm wrong. QED.