5 ms·

Militaries are the most powerful entities on the planet. A man holding a bag of cash vs. a man holding a gun. The man holding the gun always wins.

organsnyder 5y ago
The military needs to pay the troops somehow.
- LadyCailin 5y ago
  Just shoot the guy holding the bag of cash, (or just threaten to) and now you have cash to pay the troops.
  - afrodc_ 5y ago
    I mean you eventually run out of people to shoot to take bags from if you can't reasonably create more of the currency through economic activity and war is prohibitively expensive. It's also not likely the persons holding the bags that can already pay for their own troops wouldn't do so.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Yeah, reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo Money is the substrate of virtually all of society beyond a handful of your peers. If you utterly destroyed it, society would collapse.
- lasagnaphil 5y ago
  In fact, Roman gold currency was invented primarily to pay the troops. As a result gold as a currency only circulated around regions where the military was fighting, and in peaceful areas far from warfare the usual methods of debts and IOUs were used to pay for things. If you’re still curious, read Graeber’s “Debt: The First 5000 years” which delves into the Roman monetary system in detail.
ronsor 5y ago
Most people will drop their guns if paid enough.
- pie420 5y ago
  Why would they drop their guns, when they can simply tell whoever is paying them to hand over their money?
  - codehalo 5y ago
    Because the person with the money can buy even bigger guns, and pay someone to show Mr. Smallguns they mean business.
wyager 5y ago
This is excessively simplistic. An accurate model will be able to predict why most governments aren’t military juntas.
- magila 5y ago
  All governments are reliant on their military/police to maintain power. Juntas are just particularly overt about it.
lasagnaphil 5y ago
In fact, the military (and the police) is what actually enforces national currency in the utmost top level. Look what happens if you don’t pay your taxes (which is a way to enforce usage of a currency), you’ll be arrested and will go to jail. And if you think about how the US dollar remained a global reserve currency through the petrodollar (explicitly backed by the US military protecting Saudi Arabia’s oil fields in return to its oil be exclusively sold with dollars), then it’s apparent that guns are what makes the money go round.
jollybean 5y ago
The winner is the man who paid for the gun. Who were Napoleon's financiers? Hitler's? UK during WW2? It's generally the case that the politicians control the Armies during peacetime, but historically, money is the big limiting factor so banks have incredible power.
bytelines 5y ago
Reminds me of Varys' Riddle: > In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. ‘Do it,’ says the king, ‘for I am your lawful ruler.’ ‘Do it,’ says the priest, ‘for I command you in the names of the gods.’ ‘Do it,’ says the rich man, ‘and all this gold shall be yours.’ So tell me—who lives and who dies? > "The king, the priest, the rich man — who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey? It's a riddle without an answer, or rather, too many answers. All depends on the man with the sword. > "And yet he is no one," Varys said. "He has neither crown nor gold nor favor of the gods, only a piece of pointed steel." > "That piece of steel is the power of life and death." > "Just so … yet if it is the swordsmen who rule us in truth, why do we pretend our kings hold the power? Why should a strong man with a sword ever obey a child king like Joffrey, or a wine-sodden oaf like his father?" > "Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords." > "Then these other swordsmen have the true power. Or do they? Whence came their swords? Why do they obey?" Varys smiled. - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion II
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Game of Thrones is a fiction. And a fairly ahistorical one. This military historian's blog has several texts regarding its flaws. I can recommend reading them, they are well written. https://acoup.blog/tag/game-of-thrones/ https://acoup.blog/tag/game-of-thrones/ There is a reason why we distinguish between force and power. People generally perform better in societies where they aren't constantly threatened into obedience. GRRM's world is a lot more cynical and obsessed with raw force than our own historical record.
  - jl2718 5y ago
    > People generally perform better in societies where they aren't constantly threatened into obedience. These should be the first words out of any teacher's mouth in any course in history or civics. It would clear up a lot of confusion built into the vague notions of 'progress'.
- jl2718 5y ago

organsnyder 5y ago

The military needs to pay the troops somehow.

LadyCailin 5y ago
Just shoot the guy holding the bag of cash, (or just threaten to) and now you have cash to pay the troops.
- afrodc_ 5y ago
  I mean you eventually run out of people to shoot to take bags from if you can't reasonably create more of the currency through economic activity and war is prohibitively expensive. It's also not likely the persons holding the bags that can already pay for their own troops wouldn't do so.
Robotbeat 5y ago
Yeah, reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo Money is the substrate of virtually all of society beyond a handful of your peers. If you utterly destroyed it, society would collapse.
lasagnaphil 5y ago
In fact, Roman gold currency was invented primarily to pay the troops. As a result gold as a currency only circulated around regions where the military was fighting, and in peaceful areas far from warfare the usual methods of debts and IOUs were used to pay for things. If you’re still curious, read Graeber’s “Debt: The First 5000 years” which delves into the Roman monetary system in detail.

ronsor 5y ago

Most people will drop their guns if paid enough.

pie420 5y ago
Why would they drop their guns, when they can simply tell whoever is paying them to hand over their money?
- codehalo 5y ago
  Because the person with the money can buy even bigger guns, and pay someone to show Mr. Smallguns they mean business.

wyager 5y ago

This is excessively simplistic. An accurate model will be able to predict why most governments aren’t military juntas.

magila 5y ago
All governments are reliant on their military/police to maintain power. Juntas are just particularly overt about it.

lasagnaphil 5y ago

In fact, the military (and the police) is what actually enforces national currency in the utmost top level. Look what happens if you don’t pay your taxes (which is a way to enforce usage of a currency), you’ll be arrested and will go to jail. And if you think about how the US dollar remained a global reserve currency through the petrodollar (explicitly backed by the US military protecting Saudi Arabia’s oil fields in return to its oil be exclusively sold with dollars), then it’s apparent that guns are what makes the money go round.

jollybean 5y ago

The winner is the man who paid for the gun. Who were Napoleon's financiers? Hitler's? UK during WW2? It's generally the case that the politicians control the Armies during peacetime, but historically, money is the big limiting factor so banks have incredible power.

bytelines 5y ago

Reminds me of Varys' Riddle: > In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. ‘Do it,’ says the king, ‘for I am your lawful ruler.’ ‘Do it,’ says the priest, ‘for I command you in the names of the gods.’ ‘Do it,’ says the rich man, ‘and all this gold shall be yours.’ So tell me—who lives and who dies? > "The king, the priest, the rich man — who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey? It's a riddle without an answer, or rather, too many answers. All depends on the man with the sword. > "And yet he is no one," Varys said. "He has neither crown nor gold nor favor of the gods, only a piece of pointed steel." > "That piece of steel is the power of life and death." > "Just so … yet if it is the swordsmen who rule us in truth, why do we pretend our kings hold the power? Why should a strong man with a sword ever obey a child king like Joffrey, or a wine-sodden oaf like his father?" > "Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords." > "Then these other swordsmen have the true power. Or do they? Whence came their swords? Why do they obey?" Varys smiled. - A Clash of Kings - Tyrion II

inglor_cz 5y ago
Game of Thrones is a fiction. And a fairly ahistorical one. This military historian's blog has several texts regarding its flaws. I can recommend reading them, they are well written. https://acoup.blog/tag/game-of-thrones/ https://acoup.blog/tag/game-of-thrones/ There is a reason why we distinguish between force and power. People generally perform better in societies where they aren't constantly threatened into obedience. GRRM's world is a lot more cynical and obsessed with raw force than our own historical record.
- jl2718 5y ago
  > People generally perform better in societies where they aren't constantly threatened into obedience. These should be the first words out of any teacher's mouth in any course in history or civics. It would clear up a lot of confusion built into the vague notions of 'progress'.
jl2718 5y ago