5 ms·

Cryptocurrencies exist that preserve privacy somewhat - bitcoin if you are knowledgeable, pay fees, and are very careful; monero pretty much perfectly; and torn

Cryptocurrencies exist that preserve privacy somewhat - bitcoin if you are knowledgeable, pay fees, and are very careful; monero pretty much perfectly; and tornado.cash for obfuscating ETH if you are familiar with that ecosystem. However, there is an analog version of financial privacy that totally 100% breaks the chain of digital tracking - cash and gold coins. IMO, if you oppose financial privacy in digital assets, then it is hypocritical to not advocate for the total ban of cash and gold. I don’t see any way to square this circle. If you still support cash, then you should advocate for some dollar limit under which privacy is OK for crypto.

mikewarot 5y ago
Cash is anonymous for now, but all the notes are serial numbered, and recorded at some stops along the banking chain. Traffic analysis is possible with the system as it is. The very limited number of licit places to translate gold and silver coins into other forms of money are a huge barrier to avoiding tracking.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Huh. Since Sacagawea dollars never took off (and therefore aren't always accepted as currency everywhere, and their presence would therefore be more traceable), that means that coins like quarters are the most untraceable US currency. That's something like $10-20 billion worth of quarters in circulation (who knows?). ...I wonder if that explains why there was a coin shortage in the depths of 2020 during the peak of the pandemic, when people were panic-buying lots of stuff? Maybe someone (or lots of people with the same idea) took out a lot of quarters and dimes (which have the same denomination-value-per-unit-weight) from banks with the idea they are untraceable, unlike paper cash. And nickels and pennies, although heavier for a given total value, actually have a metal melt value about the same as their denomination. I can totally see why people would panic-buy lots and lots of coins. The whole "people aren't going out to eat as much" argument didn't make sense to me. People panic-hoarding untraceable assets (some with actual metal value that has the added benefit of being inflation-proof, although illegal to actually melt down) does make sense.
  - mikewarot 5y ago
    I have a simpler explanation. How much would it cost to clean a coin so that it won't spread Covid? How much sanitizer, already in short supply, would it consume? It just wasn't worth it.
    - Robotbeat 5y ago
      I suppose that explains why people wouldn't want to accept payment in cash, but that doesn't necessarily explain why there'd be a coin shortage.
      - mikewarot 5y ago
        I think this explains it fairly well https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-releases/statement-on-circulating-coins https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-releases/statement-on-circ... "In normal circumstances, retail transactions and coin recyclers return a significant amount of coins to circulation on a daily basis. However, precautions taken to slow the spread of the virus have resulted in reduced retail sales activity and significantly decreased deposits from third-party coin processors, resulting in increased orders for newly minted coins produced by the United States Mint (Mint). Third-party coin processors and retail activity account for the majority of coins put into circulation each year. For example, in 2019, the Mint contributed 17% of newly-minted circulating coins paid into the supply chain, with the remainder coming from third-party coin processors and retail activity. Simply put, there is an adequate amount of coins in the economy, but the slowed pace of circulation has meant that sufficient quantities of coins are sometimes not readily available where needed. You may be experiencing this in your local communities. We are asking for your help in improving this coin supply issue."
quadcore 5y ago
Real question: how is bitcoin not preserving privacy (heard that a lot), how can you link an address to a person?
- wmf 5y ago
  You link it to their exchange account when they cash in or cash out.
  - dragonelite 5y ago
    This... You need more and more Know your customer processes for crypto services because its getting regulated. So wallet addresses are linked to person Id.
  - quadcore 5y ago
    What if I use a bitcoin node and not an exchange?
    - wmf 5y ago
      Then maybe you are anonymous. But maybe you also can't spend your money.

mikewarot 5y ago

Cash is anonymous for now, but all the notes are serial numbered, and recorded at some stops along the banking chain. Traffic analysis is possible with the system as it is. The very limited number of licit places to translate gold and silver coins into other forms of money are a huge barrier to avoiding tracking.

Robotbeat 5y ago
Huh. Since Sacagawea dollars never took off (and therefore aren't always accepted as currency everywhere, and their presence would therefore be more traceable), that means that coins like quarters are the most untraceable US currency. That's something like $10-20 billion worth of quarters in circulation (who knows?). ...I wonder if that explains why there was a coin shortage in the depths of 2020 during the peak of the pandemic, when people were panic-buying lots of stuff? Maybe someone (or lots of people with the same idea) took out a lot of quarters and dimes (which have the same denomination-value-per-unit-weight) from banks with the idea they are untraceable, unlike paper cash. And nickels and pennies, although heavier for a given total value, actually have a metal melt value about the same as their denomination. I can totally see why people would panic-buy lots and lots of coins. The whole "people aren't going out to eat as much" argument didn't make sense to me. People panic-hoarding untraceable assets (some with actual metal value that has the added benefit of being inflation-proof, although illegal to actually melt down) does make sense.
- mikewarot 5y ago
  I have a simpler explanation. How much would it cost to clean a coin so that it won't spread Covid? How much sanitizer, already in short supply, would it consume? It just wasn't worth it.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    I suppose that explains why people wouldn't want to accept payment in cash, but that doesn't necessarily explain why there'd be a coin shortage.
    - mikewarot 5y ago
      I think this explains it fairly well https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-releases/statement-on-circulating-coins https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-releases/statement-on-circ... "In normal circumstances, retail transactions and coin recyclers return a significant amount of coins to circulation on a daily basis. However, precautions taken to slow the spread of the virus have resulted in reduced retail sales activity and significantly decreased deposits from third-party coin processors, resulting in increased orders for newly minted coins produced by the United States Mint (Mint). Third-party coin processors and retail activity account for the majority of coins put into circulation each year. For example, in 2019, the Mint contributed 17% of newly-minted circulating coins paid into the supply chain, with the remainder coming from third-party coin processors and retail activity. Simply put, there is an adequate amount of coins in the economy, but the slowed pace of circulation has meant that sufficient quantities of coins are sometimes not readily available where needed. You may be experiencing this in your local communities. We are asking for your help in improving this coin supply issue."

quadcore 5y ago

Real question: how is bitcoin not preserving privacy (heard that a lot), how can you link an address to a person?

wmf 5y ago
You link it to their exchange account when they cash in or cash out.
- dragonelite 5y ago
  This... You need more and more Know your customer processes for crypto services because its getting regulated. So wallet addresses are linked to person Id.
- quadcore 5y ago
  What if I use a bitcoin node and not an exchange?
  - wmf 5y ago
    Then maybe you are anonymous. But maybe you also can't spend your money.