5 ms·

I saw Michael Pollan speak many years ago, ~2005?, at the LA public library, about _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_. He talked about nostalgia for family farms; I grew

I saw Michael Pollan speak many years ago, ~2005?, at the LA public library, about _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_. He talked about nostalgia for family farms; I grew up in Iowa on a family farm, and in 2005 I knew that rural America had been depopulated and small family farms were few and far between. I asked him how that “density” could be restored, to recreate what he wanted. He had nothing to say, nor had much to say about the forces that had led to the current state of agriculture. It was an extremely unsatisfying answer as part of an unsatisfying talk. He struck me as an unserious person.

t8e56vd4ih 5y ago
that's also my impression after reading his book on psychedelics. interesting and eloquent but also shallow and generic.
- mjfl 5y ago
  This is why I'm afraid to do drugs. I'm worried that it will do something to my brain so that I'm impressed by shallow experiences.
  - bboylen 5y ago
    I wish I was more impressed by all the shallow, mundane experiences in my day to day life
    - mjfl 5y ago
      I think there is a difference between appreciating the mundane experiences in life and thinking you've had a religious experience because you've briefly poisoned yourself. Imo they are opposites, actually.
      - OnlineGladiator 5y ago
        > because you've briefly poisoned yourself You've clearly made up your mind that psychadelics are not for you, and that's totally fine! But this notion of being condescending towards something you've clearly never experienced (and I assume know very little about) just makes you come across as myopic - not the other way around. FWIW I've never tried psychadelics so I'm not particularly defensive here. Just pointing out the hypocrisy (or at least that's how I interpreted it) of your position.
      - co_pilates 5y ago
        I've done a few different drugs from alcohol to weed to LSD and the real benefit to the truly mind altering drugs is that they kinda throw a randomness into your mind and you make connections you normally wouldn't that might be useless 95 percent of the time, but by the end of the experience that other 5 percent had helped you too understand something more clearly or from a different perspective. Something like DMT will only take 15 minutes to trip with but it's more risky vs. shrooms which is more prolonged but less intense. Used for different things, each is. For drugs like weed or alcohol (alcohol being the more dangerous of the two, so you have to be careful), the benefits are much like any medical prescription and vary for each person. I use it for sleep and to focus because it turns off the random stray thoughts when I need that and I'm ADHD and autistic, so it also keeps me off disability and harsh ADHD drugs. I understand your pov very well because at one point in my life I thought much as you, so don't take insult, I'm just trying to tell you another pov. I'm not saying drugs are great for everyone, or everyone is mature enough to handle them, etc., but for those like me who treat them like tools or a medication that deserves respect and careful consideration, they're invaluable. If they weren't illegal and sketchy to source, it would be easier to teach others, who are going to do it anyways, the safe methods and doses for different drugs. Anyways, nothing you probably haven't heard, so I won't bore you anymore!
    - forgotmypw17 5y ago
      You really can be, and I think it's worthwhile, and it does not require drugs. It does require time, however. Time to practice beginner meditation, and time to sit and reflect on everyday objects. But the payoff is simply INCREDIBLE. That feeling of "time is going by faster and faster" is replaced with almost the opposite, of remembering an event and being surprised how recent it was compared to how distant it feels.
      - bboylen 5y ago
        I actually do meditate and agree :) But I've been pretty bad about the practice lately and need to commit more. It has helped me a lot, but there are a lot of benefits/mind states I haven't even scratched the surface of
        forgotmypw17 5y ago
        The best practice I've found to date is like this: First, I learned how to do breath-attention meditation, where I put my attention on my breathing. Then, I committed to doing this meditation immediately upon being annoyed by something or waiting for something. It's all internal, meaning I don't sit down in Lotus or close my eyes or change anything about my outward appearance. At the time, I would have semi-pointless meetings at work, which I didn't have to do much participating in, so I would do it then. Even for 5-10 seconds or 30 seconds, it has a huge payoff, because it taught me the habit and process of entering a meditative state. I've since had this idea reinforced by a teacher, who said that in the beginning you should practice entering meditation more than staying in meditation or exiting meditation, because you cannot do one without the other.
  - fzzzy 5y ago
    lol. your everyday experiences are the ones that are shallow
  - esperent 5y ago
    From one guy who writes about drugs supposedly being shallow* to assuming that drugs make people shallow is quite a leap of logic. * I mean, two people on HN called him shallow. Must be true, right?
  - filoeleven 5y ago
    Same reason I’m afraid to try meditation.
specialist 5y ago
I've been saying, to anyone who will listen, that: Pay kids to move to, or simply stay, in Kansas. After the kids get some relevant degrees, give them zero interest loans, new tractors, whatever. I really don't care what it costs. Simply redirect all those agricultural subsidies from corporations to families.
- sooheon 5y ago
  > Pay kids to move to, or simply stay, in Kansas. [...] give them zero interest loans, new tractors, whatever. Direct incentives like this usually get gamed or don't work. I prefer the Georgist approach, working with, not against market forces. Make all land speculation fully unprofitable by taxation, and make all returns from labor and capital (i.e. wages, interest, and non-rent profit) free from taxation or rent. Use the difference to fund a citizen's dividend. > Simply redirect all those agricultural subsidies from corporations to families. Absolutely, all direct subsidies must go, but let's not replace them with other subsidies. A Georgist system would replace all rentier subsidies with a labor and capital friendly free market.
- elif 5y ago
  Or an organization dedicated to offering training and subsidized equipment rental. Something similar exists in NZ
  - specialist 5y ago
    Our foreign policy gave money to foreign recipients to be spent on our own gear and services. I'm find with doing that domestically.
- smt88 5y ago
  But for all these kids, what do they have to give up? Cities/suburbs come with appealing perks: entertainment, dining, large dating pools, etc. What percentage of young people could we really convince to give up those things and how much would it cost us? I don't doubt that some young people badly want a rural/agricultural lifestyle. I'm skeptical that we could convert more of them with just money.
mdbb 5y ago
Mentally masturbate publicly about something complex the chimp troupe (which is searching for escape and purpose) has no capacity to solve, push some emotional buttons and pay your mortgage. Mission accimplished.
cogman10 5y ago
He did a netflix documentary on food that, frankly, left me with the impression that he's a pseudo-intellectual. He went off on the harms of GMO and the wonders of whole foods. He used a lot of flowery language which ultimately was him saying "See, science is garbage, buy my new age theory of life!".

t8e56vd4ih 5y ago

that's also my impression after reading his book on psychedelics. interesting and eloquent but also shallow and generic.

mjfl 5y ago
This is why I'm afraid to do drugs. I'm worried that it will do something to my brain so that I'm impressed by shallow experiences.
- bboylen 5y ago
  I wish I was more impressed by all the shallow, mundane experiences in my day to day life
  - mjfl 5y ago
    I think there is a difference between appreciating the mundane experiences in life and thinking you've had a religious experience because you've briefly poisoned yourself. Imo they are opposites, actually.
    - OnlineGladiator 5y ago
      > because you've briefly poisoned yourself You've clearly made up your mind that psychadelics are not for you, and that's totally fine! But this notion of being condescending towards something you've clearly never experienced (and I assume know very little about) just makes you come across as myopic - not the other way around. FWIW I've never tried psychadelics so I'm not particularly defensive here. Just pointing out the hypocrisy (or at least that's how I interpreted it) of your position.
    - co_pilates 5y ago
      I've done a few different drugs from alcohol to weed to LSD and the real benefit to the truly mind altering drugs is that they kinda throw a randomness into your mind and you make connections you normally wouldn't that might be useless 95 percent of the time, but by the end of the experience that other 5 percent had helped you too understand something more clearly or from a different perspective. Something like DMT will only take 15 minutes to trip with but it's more risky vs. shrooms which is more prolonged but less intense. Used for different things, each is. For drugs like weed or alcohol (alcohol being the more dangerous of the two, so you have to be careful), the benefits are much like any medical prescription and vary for each person. I use it for sleep and to focus because it turns off the random stray thoughts when I need that and I'm ADHD and autistic, so it also keeps me off disability and harsh ADHD drugs. I understand your pov very well because at one point in my life I thought much as you, so don't take insult, I'm just trying to tell you another pov. I'm not saying drugs are great for everyone, or everyone is mature enough to handle them, etc., but for those like me who treat them like tools or a medication that deserves respect and careful consideration, they're invaluable. If they weren't illegal and sketchy to source, it would be easier to teach others, who are going to do it anyways, the safe methods and doses for different drugs. Anyways, nothing you probably haven't heard, so I won't bore you anymore!
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    You really can be, and I think it's worthwhile, and it does not require drugs. It does require time, however. Time to practice beginner meditation, and time to sit and reflect on everyday objects. But the payoff is simply INCREDIBLE. That feeling of "time is going by faster and faster" is replaced with almost the opposite, of remembering an event and being surprised how recent it was compared to how distant it feels.
    - bboylen 5y ago
      I actually do meditate and agree :) But I've been pretty bad about the practice lately and need to commit more. It has helped me a lot, but there are a lot of benefits/mind states I haven't even scratched the surface of
      - forgotmypw17 5y ago
        The best practice I've found to date is like this: First, I learned how to do breath-attention meditation, where I put my attention on my breathing. Then, I committed to doing this meditation immediately upon being annoyed by something or waiting for something. It's all internal, meaning I don't sit down in Lotus or close my eyes or change anything about my outward appearance. At the time, I would have semi-pointless meetings at work, which I didn't have to do much participating in, so I would do it then. Even for 5-10 seconds or 30 seconds, it has a huge payoff, because it taught me the habit and process of entering a meditative state. I've since had this idea reinforced by a teacher, who said that in the beginning you should practice entering meditation more than staying in meditation or exiting meditation, because you cannot do one without the other.
- fzzzy 5y ago
  lol. your everyday experiences are the ones that are shallow
- esperent 5y ago
  From one guy who writes about drugs supposedly being shallow* to assuming that drugs make people shallow is quite a leap of logic. * I mean, two people on HN called him shallow. Must be true, right?
- filoeleven 5y ago
  Same reason I’m afraid to try meditation.

specialist 5y ago

I've been saying, to anyone who will listen, that: Pay kids to move to, or simply stay, in Kansas. After the kids get some relevant degrees, give them zero interest loans, new tractors, whatever. I really don't care what it costs. Simply redirect all those agricultural subsidies from corporations to families.

sooheon 5y ago
> Pay kids to move to, or simply stay, in Kansas. [...] give them zero interest loans, new tractors, whatever. Direct incentives like this usually get gamed or don't work. I prefer the Georgist approach, working with, not against market forces. Make all land speculation fully unprofitable by taxation, and make all returns from labor and capital (i.e. wages, interest, and non-rent profit) free from taxation or rent. Use the difference to fund a citizen's dividend. > Simply redirect all those agricultural subsidies from corporations to families. Absolutely, all direct subsidies must go, but let's not replace them with other subsidies. A Georgist system would replace all rentier subsidies with a labor and capital friendly free market.
elif 5y ago
Or an organization dedicated to offering training and subsidized equipment rental. Something similar exists in NZ
- specialist 5y ago
  Our foreign policy gave money to foreign recipients to be spent on our own gear and services. I'm find with doing that domestically.
smt88 5y ago
But for all these kids, what do they have to give up? Cities/suburbs come with appealing perks: entertainment, dining, large dating pools, etc. What percentage of young people could we really convince to give up those things and how much would it cost us? I don't doubt that some young people badly want a rural/agricultural lifestyle. I'm skeptical that we could convert more of them with just money.

mdbb 5y ago

Mentally masturbate publicly about something complex the chimp troupe (which is searching for escape and purpose) has no capacity to solve, push some emotional buttons and pay your mortgage. Mission accimplished.

cogman10 5y ago

He did a netflix documentary on food that, frankly, left me with the impression that he's a pseudo-intellectual. He went off on the harms of GMO and the wonders of whole foods. He used a lot of flowery language which ultimately was him saying "See, science is garbage, buy my new age theory of life!".