3 ms·

Psychedelics have been quite beneficial for my social anxiety as well. I once took mdma, went to a random toastmasters meetup solo, and gave two presentations.

Psychedelics have been quite beneficial for my social anxiety as well. I once took mdma, went to a random toastmasters meetup solo, and gave two presentations. Twas effective in reframing my relationship to social anxiety to a non-trivial degree.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
How long was the effect for?
- elevenoh 5y ago
  I'm not sure as this single event was simply a strong - even pivotal - step in the right direction. I now have remarkably low social anxiety. Objectively: I approach unfamiliar groups, women etc. in ways that baffle others I'm with.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
You went to a Toastmaster’s meetup on MDMA? That’s in now way comparable to having treated your social anxiety. Recreational drugs obviously produce short-lived mental changes.
- loves_mangoes 5y ago
  When he says reframing his relashionship with soxial anxiety, I don't think he just means being drunk at the time. Social anxiety is an opinion you have of yourself. That can change. Or at least, you can decide how you feel about it.
- warent 5y ago
  Few people are willing to put in the long hard work required for many things including mental health. Instant gratification and quick fixes are very popular, and I'm not convinced of it being a long term solution. It's like being challenged to climb a mountain but we just take a helicopter up instead. Sure we get to the top and see the view, but we still didn't learn to climb it. The unshakable personal growth is missed, and there will be many future mountains with the same challenges. Do the real work, find a good psychologist, build a relationship, and the healing can be life changing on levels you only dream of. It took me about 3 years(!) before I finally got brave enough to truly open up to my therapist which finally lead to identifying that I have OCD. That has been an enormous mental burden lifted from my psyche. The journey was well worth the milestone, and it's just the start of the work.
  - creamytaco 5y ago
    You spent three years trying to get someone else to first understand you and then use him as a go-between for "you" to better understand yourself. That's like debugging a program running on your own computer by using a 3rd person that's completely unfamiliar with the program as your only input/output. Extremely inefficient. Psychedelics blow the door to the mind-psyche apart and place you right at the center of the cyclone (to paraphrase John Lilly). For a smart, introspective/reflective individual there is nothing more direct and arguably better: No filters, no go-betweens, an aspect of one's self is placed inside one's own mind, free to observe and experience.
    - elevenoh 5y ago
      Agree. Also: there's a 'feeling is understanding' component to psychs that can be unattainably difficult to replicate without this tool. Ultimately there's nuance some other commenters here seem to overlook: once you have a taste of this guiding understanding, it remains up to the individual to put in the work - psychological, physical etc. - to reach & maintain their desired state.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - travisjungroth 5y ago
    I think your mountain analogy is accurate, but I also think it means that these temporary, breakthrough experiences still have their place. Imagine thinking that you could never, ever get to the top of the mountain. There's no point even trying to work up to it. Then someone takes you up in a helicopter. You see the path from above. You see other people taking it. You see the view. Then, you're dropped back into the valley. That experience gives some people a sense of hope and changes their relationship with the work.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    While I 110% recommend trying to work with a good therapist you like and trust, the problem with some mental illnesses (like depression) is that putting in the hard work is just that: hard... very hard.. and seriously depressed people rarely have the energy and motivation to do the work. In severe cases they struggle to even get out of bed, will miss therapy appointments, not follow through on therapist recommendations, etc. This is where medication can sometimes break through ingrained bad habits and attitudes, and make looking squarely at and dealing with our problems possible. Psychedelics (when combined with therapy) seem to be very effective at this.. more effective than any other medicines, for some conditions. It's not a panacea, and it's not guaranteed to help everyone -- nothing is. However, it has helped many people when nothing else has. Read about the studies on severe, treatment-resistant depression or treatment-resistant PTSD. Many of these people have tried literally dozens of medications and therapies, including electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and nothing's worked for them, leading some of them to suicide attempts. One to three therapy sessions with MDMA has moved them to a place where many of them no longer even register as having PTSD or depression. Though not everyone is helped, the fact that some of these people are is amazing, and that's why MDMA therapy is being approved by the FDA despite MDMA being a schedule 1 drug.
- elevenoh 5y ago
  >That’s in now way comparable to having treated your social anxiety Did I say I 'treated my social anxiety'? No. This event & exposure was a major step forward for me - I had never felt less socially self-conscious & more self-love while presenting. My outlook / frame on social anxiety was never the same. I find your comment interestingly dismissive & defensive. Any reason why this might be?
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "That’s in now way comparable to having treated your social anxiety." It is comparable, actually. There is something in psychology called "exposure therapy"[1] where one is exposed to whatever causes your anxiety or phobia (sometimes with positive reinforcement) and one gradually gets used to it until you're no longer afraid of it. Similarly, I've heard MDMA therapists theorize that using MDMA to treat depression, PTSD, and other mental issues where there might be repressed or uncomfortable experiences that one couldn't face in ordinary waking consciousness allows the patient to be comfortable with them while under the effects of the medicine, and this allows them to not be as reactive to that same stimulus even after the medication wears off. By the way, speaking of social anxiety, here's an interesting video of someone with asperger's and how a single MDMA experience helped him: [2] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0
tamaharbor 5y ago
Were you scheduled to give the presentations?
- elevenoh 5y ago
  No, this was my 1st toastmasters session & was a drop-in. I gave 2 impromptu session speeches.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

How long was the effect for?

elevenoh 5y ago
I'm not sure as this single event was simply a strong - even pivotal - step in the right direction. I now have remarkably low social anxiety. Objectively: I approach unfamiliar groups, women etc. in ways that baffle others I'm with.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

You went to a Toastmaster’s meetup on MDMA? That’s in now way comparable to having treated your social anxiety. Recreational drugs obviously produce short-lived mental changes.

loves_mangoes 5y ago
When he says reframing his relashionship with soxial anxiety, I don't think he just means being drunk at the time. Social anxiety is an opinion you have of yourself. That can change. Or at least, you can decide how you feel about it.
warent 5y ago
Few people are willing to put in the long hard work required for many things including mental health. Instant gratification and quick fixes are very popular, and I'm not convinced of it being a long term solution. It's like being challenged to climb a mountain but we just take a helicopter up instead. Sure we get to the top and see the view, but we still didn't learn to climb it. The unshakable personal growth is missed, and there will be many future mountains with the same challenges. Do the real work, find a good psychologist, build a relationship, and the healing can be life changing on levels you only dream of. It took me about 3 years(!) before I finally got brave enough to truly open up to my therapist which finally lead to identifying that I have OCD. That has been an enormous mental burden lifted from my psyche. The journey was well worth the milestone, and it's just the start of the work.
- creamytaco 5y ago
  You spent three years trying to get someone else to first understand you and then use him as a go-between for "you" to better understand yourself. That's like debugging a program running on your own computer by using a 3rd person that's completely unfamiliar with the program as your only input/output. Extremely inefficient. Psychedelics blow the door to the mind-psyche apart and place you right at the center of the cyclone (to paraphrase John Lilly). For a smart, introspective/reflective individual there is nothing more direct and arguably better: No filters, no go-betweens, an aspect of one's self is placed inside one's own mind, free to observe and experience.
  - elevenoh 5y ago
    Agree. Also: there's a 'feeling is understanding' component to psychs that can be unattainably difficult to replicate without this tool. Ultimately there's nuance some other commenters here seem to overlook: once you have a taste of this guiding understanding, it remains up to the individual to put in the work - psychological, physical etc. - to reach & maintain their desired state.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- travisjungroth 5y ago
  I think your mountain analogy is accurate, but I also think it means that these temporary, breakthrough experiences still have their place. Imagine thinking that you could never, ever get to the top of the mountain. There's no point even trying to work up to it. Then someone takes you up in a helicopter. You see the path from above. You see other people taking it. You see the view. Then, you're dropped back into the valley. That experience gives some people a sense of hope and changes their relationship with the work.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  While I 110% recommend trying to work with a good therapist you like and trust, the problem with some mental illnesses (like depression) is that putting in the hard work is just that: hard... very hard.. and seriously depressed people rarely have the energy and motivation to do the work. In severe cases they struggle to even get out of bed, will miss therapy appointments, not follow through on therapist recommendations, etc. This is where medication can sometimes break through ingrained bad habits and attitudes, and make looking squarely at and dealing with our problems possible. Psychedelics (when combined with therapy) seem to be very effective at this.. more effective than any other medicines, for some conditions. It's not a panacea, and it's not guaranteed to help everyone -- nothing is. However, it has helped many people when nothing else has. Read about the studies on severe, treatment-resistant depression or treatment-resistant PTSD. Many of these people have tried literally dozens of medications and therapies, including electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and nothing's worked for them, leading some of them to suicide attempts. One to three therapy sessions with MDMA has moved them to a place where many of them no longer even register as having PTSD or depression. Though not everyone is helped, the fact that some of these people are is amazing, and that's why MDMA therapy is being approved by the FDA despite MDMA being a schedule 1 drug.
elevenoh 5y ago
>That’s in now way comparable to having treated your social anxiety Did I say I 'treated my social anxiety'? No. This event & exposure was a major step forward for me - I had never felt less socially self-conscious & more self-love while presenting. My outlook / frame on social anxiety was never the same. I find your comment interestingly dismissive & defensive. Any reason why this might be?
pmoriarty 5y ago
"That’s in now way comparable to having treated your social anxiety." It is comparable, actually. There is something in psychology called "exposure therapy"[1] where one is exposed to whatever causes your anxiety or phobia (sometimes with positive reinforcement) and one gradually gets used to it until you're no longer afraid of it. Similarly, I've heard MDMA therapists theorize that using MDMA to treat depression, PTSD, and other mental issues where there might be repressed or uncomfortable experiences that one couldn't face in ordinary waking consciousness allows the patient to be comfortable with them while under the effects of the medicine, and this allows them to not be as reactive to that same stimulus even after the medication wears off. By the way, speaking of social anxiety, here's an interesting video of someone with asperger's and how a single MDMA experience helped him: [2] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0

tamaharbor 5y ago

Were you scheduled to give the presentations?

elevenoh 5y ago
No, this was my 1st toastmasters session & was a drop-in. I gave 2 impromptu session speeches.