4 ms·

Damn, long thread. I use Java, PHP, and Ruby: whever gets the job done in the given problem domain. Not a fan of a technical monoculture at all. PHP has been

by j_col 15y ago

Damn, long thread. I use Java, PHP, and Ruby: whever gets the job done in the given problem domain. Not a fan of a technical monoculture at all. PHP has been the language that is fashionable to hate for years now, but I still love it for web apps.

troels 15y ago
I use Java, PHP, and Ruby: whever gets the job done in the given problem domain I never really understood this argument. I mean, the overlap between Ruby and PHP are so great that they are virtually interchangeable.
- skrebbel 15y ago
  Wait, you can upload a .rb file to a random hosting provider and it'll just work?
  - jrockway 15y ago
    Wait, you're eleven years old? (Hint: copying files to a server is not how real applications are deployed.)
    - de90 15y ago
      Could you elaborate? My programming experience is just for fun\learning, and I'm ignorant about this.
      - jrockway 15y ago
        You just bought your shipment of 1000 servers. Do you really think you ssh to each one, edit config files, and copy your code over? Nope. You write a computer program to do all that. (See: puppet, etc.) At that point, it's equally easy to install a stack like haproxy + varnish + nginx + a bunch of CPAN modules as it is to rsync over a bunch of .php files, and therefore "it's easier to deploy" is meaningless. You click a button. Not to pick on you specifically, but one argument that comes up quite frequently, especially in PHP vs. X discussions, is "I don't see how xxx feature of other language is beneficial." Well, the reason you "don't see" that is because you simply don't have enough experience yet. Deployment is the same way; a lot of people get by for years without ever "doing it right". But that doesn't mean the wrong way is right, it just means you haven't been required to get deployment right yet.
        pak 15y ago
        >At that point, it's equally easy to install a stack like haproxy + varnish + nginx + a bunch of CPAN modules as it is to rsync over a bunch of .php files Ahem. I get what you are trying to say, but I think you're gonna have a hard time saying that Ruby is as easy to deploy "right" as PHP. Rsyncing a bunch of PHP files is a single shell command. Writing puppet or bcfg2 specs to deploy your six-tier web stack for your RoR app is a bit harder, it is most certainly not a button click out of the box, and neither process is necessarily more "right". It certainly helped the PHP ecosystem that deploying a LAMP stack is as easy as running three package installs and copying over some PHP files. The fact that a simple-to-understand, well-established process will scale you up to decent load before you need to get fancy will continue to make it an attractive platform.
    - skrebbel 15y ago
      Such a friendly response. The GP talked about "the given problem domains". One problem domain is simple, one-shot processing for plain old websites. Custom sign-up forms for stuff. Forms that email their data to some address. Homecooked personal-use search boxes that have "magic" functionality. All kinds of simple shit. These are deployed by FTP just fine. Another problem domain is deploying something to virtually any cheap shared hosting provider. These very seldomly have e.g. ruby support. Sometimes, for all kinds of practical purposes, you don't get to choose.
  - troels 15y ago
    The types of problems I usually work on are more complex than a single file form-to-mail script, but if I needed it, Heroku gets you up and running with Sinatra (or plain rack) in a single file.
- mitchty 15y ago
  The overlap between all Turing complete languages sort of ensures they are all interchangeable.
  - carbocation 15y ago
    This should be the Godwin's law terminating condition for language discussion. :)
    - mitchty 15y ago
      Works for me! >.< But seriously, I find programming language fights to be mostly useless. Its like trying to argue English is more expressive than say French or German or whatever language. They all can convey human ideas, but each makes certain concepts a bit easier to express and others more difficult. In the end though, the thought or concept can be conveyed.
  - Dn_Ab 15y ago
    This path followed to its logical conclusion leads to turing's tarpit.

by j_col 15y ago

troels 15y ago

I use Java, PHP, and Ruby: whever gets the job done in the given problem domain I never really understood this argument. I mean, the overlap between Ruby and PHP are so great that they are virtually interchangeable.

skrebbel 15y ago
Wait, you can upload a .rb file to a random hosting provider and it'll just work?
- jrockway 15y ago
  Wait, you're eleven years old? (Hint: copying files to a server is not how real applications are deployed.)
  - de90 15y ago
    Could you elaborate? My programming experience is just for fun\learning, and I'm ignorant about this.
    - jrockway 15y ago
      You just bought your shipment of 1000 servers. Do you really think you ssh to each one, edit config files, and copy your code over? Nope. You write a computer program to do all that. (See: puppet, etc.) At that point, it's equally easy to install a stack like haproxy + varnish + nginx + a bunch of CPAN modules as it is to rsync over a bunch of .php files, and therefore "it's easier to deploy" is meaningless. You click a button. Not to pick on you specifically, but one argument that comes up quite frequently, especially in PHP vs. X discussions, is "I don't see how xxx feature of other language is beneficial." Well, the reason you "don't see" that is because you simply don't have enough experience yet. Deployment is the same way; a lot of people get by for years without ever "doing it right". But that doesn't mean the wrong way is right, it just means you haven't been required to get deployment right yet.
      - pak 15y ago
        >At that point, it's equally easy to install a stack like haproxy + varnish + nginx + a bunch of CPAN modules as it is to rsync over a bunch of .php files Ahem. I get what you are trying to say, but I think you're gonna have a hard time saying that Ruby is as easy to deploy "right" as PHP. Rsyncing a bunch of PHP files is a single shell command. Writing puppet or bcfg2 specs to deploy your six-tier web stack for your RoR app is a bit harder, it is most certainly not a button click out of the box, and neither process is necessarily more "right". It certainly helped the PHP ecosystem that deploying a LAMP stack is as easy as running three package installs and copying over some PHP files. The fact that a simple-to-understand, well-established process will scale you up to decent load before you need to get fancy will continue to make it an attractive platform.
  - skrebbel 15y ago
    Such a friendly response. The GP talked about "the given problem domains". One problem domain is simple, one-shot processing for plain old websites. Custom sign-up forms for stuff. Forms that email their data to some address. Homecooked personal-use search boxes that have "magic" functionality. All kinds of simple shit. These are deployed by FTP just fine. Another problem domain is deploying something to virtually any cheap shared hosting provider. These very seldomly have e.g. ruby support. Sometimes, for all kinds of practical purposes, you don't get to choose.
- troels 15y ago
  The types of problems I usually work on are more complex than a single file form-to-mail script, but if I needed it, Heroku gets you up and running with Sinatra (or plain rack) in a single file.
mitchty 15y ago
The overlap between all Turing complete languages sort of ensures they are all interchangeable.
- carbocation 15y ago
  This should be the Godwin's law terminating condition for language discussion. :)
  - mitchty 15y ago
    Works for me! >.< But seriously, I find programming language fights to be mostly useless. Its like trying to argue English is more expressive than say French or German or whatever language. They all can convey human ideas, but each makes certain concepts a bit easier to express and others more difficult. In the end though, the thought or concept can be conveyed.
- Dn_Ab 15y ago
  This path followed to its logical conclusion leads to turing's tarpit.