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> Bose’s hearing aids were recently approved by the FDA, and they’re only $850. Only $850? That is a new use of the word only as far as I'm concerned. These th

> Bose’s hearing aids were recently approved by the FDA, and they’re only $850. Only $850? That is a new use of the word only as far as I'm concerned. These things, which are in many ways similar to if not identical with bluetooth earbuds should not cost more than those - and given the fact that Apple managed to convince people that $200 is a normal price for these things that should leave more than enough margin for an unhealthy profit margin seeing as how the ones I'm using cost ⅐ of that while achieving a longer battery life.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Traditionally, the cost for hearing aids runs in the thousands of dollars. Perfect is the enemy of good enough, progress takes time.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  The only progress needed here is for the protection racket to be broken down, this can be done with the stroke of a pen. Allowing it to "take time" only gives those who seek to extract as much money as possible from the artificially limited market more time to do so.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    I encourage you (and others) to actively engage with your Congressional representatives and regulators in this regard.
    - the_third_wave 5y ago
      Being European I think they will pay even less attention to me than they would to their constituents. Hearing aids are expensive on this side of the Atlantic as well though - although less expensive than in the USA - so it is still worth finding a way to open up this market. Just like intrepid hackers managed to turn routing appliances into versatile network components by creating OpenWRT, DD-WRT and similar "hacks" it would be refreshing to see something like this happening by someone creating new firmware for earbuds. While this would not be a real solution - hearing aids need longer battery life than earbuds for starters - it would give lie to the defence of high hearing aid prices. Any earbud with active noise cancellation probably has enough DSP capacity to implement the equaliser necessary to function as a hearing aid so the hardware should be available for such a hack. There was an IndiGogo project aiming to produce 2-in-1 earbuds/hearing aids, it was funded in 15 minutes... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/olive-pro-2-in-1-hearing-aids-bluetooth-earbuds#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/olive-pro-2-in-1-hearing-...
      - pkaye 5y ago
        The high price for hearing aids in the US is due to that independent providers need to mark up their hearing aids to pay for their overhead. So a $4k/pair hearing aid might have cost $2k/pair for them. Here Costco also sells hearing aids so they private label the same top end hearing aids for $1.4k/pair. They are a lot cheaper because they make profits through their overall membership base. Also they can negotiate a volume discount. Based of talking to the audiologist, I'd say the supplier sells them for $1.3k/pair tops. Having hearing aids myself, the big thing is amplifying the sound without the noise. The device needs to figure out what to focus on. If I'm in a restaurant with lots of background noise and people talking, what should be amplified. Most hearing aids use multiple microphones and program settings to identify what to focus on. And there are different kinds of noise like car engine noise or HVAC noise. And don't forget the wind noise on the microphone when you are walking. Also hearing aids compress the dynamic range and frequencies to extend the range of hearing to improve comprehension. And if there is a sudden loud noise it shouldn't go beyond a comfortable power level.
        the_third_wave 5y ago
        > <list of hearing aid functions/> Yes, a hearing aid is not the same as a noise-cancelling earbud, they use different algorithms and the former needs to be more configurable than the latter. Then again, this functionality is implemented in firmware and uses common audio processing algorithms on off-the-shelf low-power DSPs, just like those noise-cancelling earbuds. The IndieGogo example I mentioned seems to be able to sell a pair of multi-purpose buds for around $250 a pair, $600 for 3 pairs. Assuming they are actually making a profit on these sales - and I don't see why they wouldn't, the hardware seems quite standard for noise-cancelling earbuds - this is proof of what I stated before and gives lie to the "overhead" excuse for the high mark-up, especially given the small size of the company behind the things. Of course I do not know whether the buds sold through IndieGogo are as capable hearing aids as "regular, overpriced" ones and I do notice that the stated running time (18 hours) is that of the buds and the charging case together - the buds themselves last for 7 hours between charges. They're specified for "mild ~ moderately-severe hearing loss" and seem to have the required amplification and equalizing capabilities [1]. Maybe give them a try? I don't need hearing aids myself but my mother does use them so I'm thinking about getting her a pair of these once her current pair is in need of replacement. [1] https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1621441053/zepjoleopyfqcdh6neon.jpg https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/...
fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
Is there an earbud costs $30 with active noise cancelation and transparency mode? I want this.
SamuelAdams 5y ago
Hi, I wear hearing aids full time and have been wearing them all my life. They are not identical to Bluetooth earbuds. The sound is completely different. Hearing aids need to be able to be adjusted to the wearer’s particular hearing loss. For example I need more amplification on high frequency pitches and less amplification on lower pitches. Good hearing aids are also environmentally aware. They will adjust the amplification to be different in a car, bus, and quiet conference room. Cheap hearing aids rarely do this well. There is a very drastic difference between 800 dollar hearing aids and 10,000 aids. Trust me, I’ve tried both of them. At best these Bluetooth headphones / earbuds you mention can just make all noises louder, across all environments. That helps a bit but it is not the same as what a good pair of hearing aids can do today.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Traditionally, the cost for hearing aids runs in the thousands of dollars. Perfect is the enemy of good enough, progress takes time.

the_third_wave 5y ago
The only progress needed here is for the protection racket to be broken down, this can be done with the stroke of a pen. Allowing it to "take time" only gives those who seek to extract as much money as possible from the artificially limited market more time to do so.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  I encourage you (and others) to actively engage with your Congressional representatives and regulators in this regard.
  - the_third_wave 5y ago
    Being European I think they will pay even less attention to me than they would to their constituents. Hearing aids are expensive on this side of the Atlantic as well though - although less expensive than in the USA - so it is still worth finding a way to open up this market. Just like intrepid hackers managed to turn routing appliances into versatile network components by creating OpenWRT, DD-WRT and similar "hacks" it would be refreshing to see something like this happening by someone creating new firmware for earbuds. While this would not be a real solution - hearing aids need longer battery life than earbuds for starters - it would give lie to the defence of high hearing aid prices. Any earbud with active noise cancellation probably has enough DSP capacity to implement the equaliser necessary to function as a hearing aid so the hardware should be available for such a hack. There was an IndiGogo project aiming to produce 2-in-1 earbuds/hearing aids, it was funded in 15 minutes... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/olive-pro-2-in-1-hearing-aids-bluetooth-earbuds#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/olive-pro-2-in-1-hearing-...
    - pkaye 5y ago
      The high price for hearing aids in the US is due to that independent providers need to mark up their hearing aids to pay for their overhead. So a $4k/pair hearing aid might have cost $2k/pair for them. Here Costco also sells hearing aids so they private label the same top end hearing aids for $1.4k/pair. They are a lot cheaper because they make profits through their overall membership base. Also they can negotiate a volume discount. Based of talking to the audiologist, I'd say the supplier sells them for $1.3k/pair tops. Having hearing aids myself, the big thing is amplifying the sound without the noise. The device needs to figure out what to focus on. If I'm in a restaurant with lots of background noise and people talking, what should be amplified. Most hearing aids use multiple microphones and program settings to identify what to focus on. And there are different kinds of noise like car engine noise or HVAC noise. And don't forget the wind noise on the microphone when you are walking. Also hearing aids compress the dynamic range and frequencies to extend the range of hearing to improve comprehension. And if there is a sudden loud noise it shouldn't go beyond a comfortable power level.
      - the_third_wave 5y ago
        > <list of hearing aid functions/> Yes, a hearing aid is not the same as a noise-cancelling earbud, they use different algorithms and the former needs to be more configurable than the latter. Then again, this functionality is implemented in firmware and uses common audio processing algorithms on off-the-shelf low-power DSPs, just like those noise-cancelling earbuds. The IndieGogo example I mentioned seems to be able to sell a pair of multi-purpose buds for around $250 a pair, $600 for 3 pairs. Assuming they are actually making a profit on these sales - and I don't see why they wouldn't, the hardware seems quite standard for noise-cancelling earbuds - this is proof of what I stated before and gives lie to the "overhead" excuse for the high mark-up, especially given the small size of the company behind the things. Of course I do not know whether the buds sold through IndieGogo are as capable hearing aids as "regular, overpriced" ones and I do notice that the stated running time (18 hours) is that of the buds and the charging case together - the buds themselves last for 7 hours between charges. They're specified for "mild ~ moderately-severe hearing loss" and seem to have the required amplification and equalizing capabilities [1]. Maybe give them a try? I don't need hearing aids myself but my mother does use them so I'm thinking about getting her a pair of these once her current pair is in need of replacement. [1] https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1621441053/zepjoleopyfqcdh6neon.jpg https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/...

fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago

Is there an earbud costs $30 with active noise cancelation and transparency mode? I want this.

SamuelAdams 5y ago

Hi, I wear hearing aids full time and have been wearing them all my life. They are not identical to Bluetooth earbuds. The sound is completely different. Hearing aids need to be able to be adjusted to the wearer’s particular hearing loss. For example I need more amplification on high frequency pitches and less amplification on lower pitches. Good hearing aids are also environmentally aware. They will adjust the amplification to be different in a car, bus, and quiet conference room. Cheap hearing aids rarely do this well. There is a very drastic difference between 800 dollar hearing aids and 10,000 aids. Trust me, I’ve tried both of them. At best these Bluetooth headphones / earbuds you mention can just make all noises louder, across all environments. That helps a bit but it is not the same as what a good pair of hearing aids can do today.