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Dude, it isn’t like we can’t see what red-letter Jesus said and did, and also see that many — even a majority — of self-identifying “Christians” behave in ways

Dude, it isn’t like we can’t see what red-letter Jesus said and did, and also see that many — even a majority — of self-identifying “Christians” behave in ways that are in contradiction to His commandments. IOW, about as “Christian” as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is “Democratic”: the self-selected name does not represent the actual reality.

crazygringo 5y ago
"Dude", if you think Christianity is mostly about what Jesus taught or his commandments... then I'm sorry but you don't understand Christianity at all. Christianity is a multifaceted historical phenomenon, a cultural tradition of which Jesus and even the text of the Bible is a small part. Saying Christianity is about what Jesus said and did makes as much sense as saying that the US is about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. In both cases, it's not nothing, but neither is it the whole story, or even 10% of the story. You're free to decide what Christianity means to you, but not to prevent others from doing the same for themselves. After all, others doing it for themselves is precisely why "Christianity" is a family of seemingly countless denominations and divisions within. It's not a single monolithic thing, or even close to it.
- moistly 5y ago
  > Christianity is a multifaceted historical phenomenon, a cultural tradition of which Jesus and even the text of the Bible is a small part. Agreed, Jesus Christ’s teachings play a minuscule part, especially in modern American Christianity.
  - crazygringo 5y ago
    Wondering why you're singling out America here. Do you think it's any less than among Catholics in Italy? Or Eastern Orthodox adherents in Russia?
    - moistly 5y ago
      Because back toward the root of this thread, the talk was about America.
betterunix2 5y ago
Christianity as it is practiced by the vast majority of Christians today is not based on the teachings of Jesus, but rather on the teachings of Paul. If you were to take only the teachings of Jesus (minus those that were clearly invented by later scribes), it is not very far from the views expressed in the Talmud. In some cases Jesus was on the liberal end of Jewish thought, in others on the conservative end, and in the few cases where he deviated from the mainstream he did not stray all that much. When Jesus complained about the Pharisees (i.e. Rabbis), his complaint was not that they taught the wrong doctrine but that they were hypocrites who did not properly keep the law they taught. On the other hand, mainstream Christian ideas about human nature, about sin, about the messiah, and about God's will (not to mention the nature of God), are for the most part based on Paul's writings and all represent departures from Jewish thought on those topics. It was primarily Paul who pushed for Christians to abandon kosher laws and circumcision, two major hurdles he faced in convincing non-Jews to join the new religion. More than anyone else described in the New Testament, Paul was responsible for Christianity becoming a distinct religion rather than just another Jewish sect.

crazygringo 5y ago

"Dude", if you think Christianity is mostly about what Jesus taught or his commandments... then I'm sorry but you don't understand Christianity at all. Christianity is a multifaceted historical phenomenon, a cultural tradition of which Jesus and even the text of the Bible is a small part. Saying Christianity is about what Jesus said and did makes as much sense as saying that the US is about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. In both cases, it's not nothing, but neither is it the whole story, or even 10% of the story. You're free to decide what Christianity means to you, but not to prevent others from doing the same for themselves. After all, others doing it for themselves is precisely why "Christianity" is a family of seemingly countless denominations and divisions within. It's not a single monolithic thing, or even close to it.

moistly 5y ago
> Christianity is a multifaceted historical phenomenon, a cultural tradition of which Jesus and even the text of the Bible is a small part. Agreed, Jesus Christ’s teachings play a minuscule part, especially in modern American Christianity.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  Wondering why you're singling out America here. Do you think it's any less than among Catholics in Italy? Or Eastern Orthodox adherents in Russia?
  - moistly 5y ago
    Because back toward the root of this thread, the talk was about America.

betterunix2 5y ago

Christianity as it is practiced by the vast majority of Christians today is not based on the teachings of Jesus, but rather on the teachings of Paul. If you were to take only the teachings of Jesus (minus those that were clearly invented by later scribes), it is not very far from the views expressed in the Talmud. In some cases Jesus was on the liberal end of Jewish thought, in others on the conservative end, and in the few cases where he deviated from the mainstream he did not stray all that much. When Jesus complained about the Pharisees (i.e. Rabbis), his complaint was not that they taught the wrong doctrine but that they were hypocrites who did not properly keep the law they taught. On the other hand, mainstream Christian ideas about human nature, about sin, about the messiah, and about God's will (not to mention the nature of God), are for the most part based on Paul's writings and all represent departures from Jewish thought on those topics. It was primarily Paul who pushed for Christians to abandon kosher laws and circumcision, two major hurdles he faced in convincing non-Jews to join the new religion. More than anyone else described in the New Testament, Paul was responsible for Christianity becoming a distinct religion rather than just another Jewish sect.