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The viewpoint that this article is missing: much of this “reversion” to anti-democratic governments in Central Europe (Visegrad+ Balkans) is coming from Western

The viewpoint that this article is missing: much of this “reversion” to anti-democratic governments in Central Europe (Visegrad+ Balkans) is coming from Western EU members pushing their newfangled cultural ideologies a little too hard. Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Ex-Yugoslavia want to be a part of the EU for economic reasons, not so they can participate in American-led cultural movements. If the EU doesn’t wise up and tone down their revolutionary zeal, these countries are going to be pushed even further away, eventually even towards Russia, China, or Turkey.

nisa 5y ago
I call bullshit on this. It's a propaganda tale from the controlled media in these states to avoid having to talk about oligarchs, corruption and and real issues. At least it's pretty visible in Czechia, where Andrej Babiš and the media controlled by him to use this narration. Hungary probably the same.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Do you really think that every single country in the world has the same values as certain groups in the EU?
  - nisa 5y ago
    As far as I know most laws that are 'pushed' are based on providing equality, protection of minorities and avoiding discrimination (i.e. LBGT). Basically things like these are not okay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_anti-LGBT_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_anti-LGBT_law
    - ceilingcorner 5y ago
      That is only a very small part of it. The only reason laws like this exist is because they are perceived as being defensive measures against a huge “Western” cultural / media project. As the other commenter said, most of these movements have nothing to do with Eastern and Central European history, so they aren’t received well. E.g. Poland and Hungary had no colonies so anti-colonialism ideology doesn’t make much sense to be there...yet it is being pushed.
- elmo2you 5y ago
  I'm afraid this is not at all bullshit, even though I wish it was so. While it is true that these opposing countries no doubt each have their own problems with (local/national) corruption and oligarchies, the ideologies that are currently being forced on them are very much the product of corruption and oligarchies on a much larger scale (just better hidden). In fact, none of these ideologies are what they claim to be. This is all about powers who have essentially hijacked the EU project for their own greedy gains. This ideological criticism in reality just attempts to crush the (relatively amateurishly organized) local competition to their own hegemony. That isn't propaganda. It's an organization who cleverly knows how to abuse the general ignorance of most citizens regarding these countries and abusing it to frame reality into a conveniently useful picture/justification for their attempt to take (even more) control. As much as there is all kind of things wrong with these opposing countries, of which there indeed is plenty, there is equally nothing good or lofty about what the EU is doing at the moment. As ironic as it might be, the local corruption and oligarchies in these countries may in fact only be child's play compared what has infested the EU. The main difference probably being the success with which criminal elements within the EU have managed to hide their activities from the general population. Probably not in the least by "outsourcing" a lot of its business to either outside EU, or to local shady endeavors in these countries now criticized, where it's a lot easier to hide how profits are being made. Of course, countries like Czechia, Hungary, Poland and a few more certainly should do more about their internal corruption. But what most people forget is that the current status quo to a large degree was build up and supported by powerful figures within the EU. Most of that because these corruptions at the fringes of the EU territory just so happened to be very convenient and profitable for the people who "accidentally" let all of this happen on their watch. Mind you, figures like Victor Orban became as powerful as they are now by gaming EU rules, with the full knowledge of those who made and governed those rules!
  - nisa 5y ago
    > the ideologies that are currently being forced on them are very much the product of corruption and oligarchies on a much larger scale (just better hidden). In fact, none of these ideologies are what claim to be. This is all about powers who have essentially hijacked the EU project for their own greedy gains. The ideological criticism in reality just attempts to crush the (relatively amateurishly organized) local competition to their own hegemony. That isn't propaganda. It's an organization who cleverly knows how to abuse the general ignorance of most citizens regarding these countries and abusing it to frame reality into a conveniently useful picture/justification. care to elaborate? Is it about german/france hegonomy? About keeping the eastern countries for cheap labour from western coorporations? There is lot's to dislike about the EU - would like to hear more details.
reader_mode 5y ago
Having to constantly go through American left ideology pushed so far to balance the heritage of slavery and their social issues is tiring. Racism isn't really a thing in that sense (there's gypsies but that has a very different dynamic). Gender stuff feels way too forced. These cultures are not comparable, these are not the burning issues in our society and yet they are pushed to the forefront of attention. Meanwhile we have the most systemically corrupt governments (these guys don't even do the overt things like industry engagement and speeches after their term, our former PM is in jail for straight out taking bribes in a privatisation scandal, mayor of the capital was collecting bribes for standard city functions for 20 years, the only reason this got to public attention was he died before getting re-elected, and this is endemic in all levels of society) Pushing on social agendas gives ammo to corrupt politicians to spin the story away from the important stuff and fight a strawman.

nisa 5y ago

I call bullshit on this. It's a propaganda tale from the controlled media in these states to avoid having to talk about oligarchs, corruption and and real issues. At least it's pretty visible in Czechia, where Andrej Babiš and the media controlled by him to use this narration. Hungary probably the same.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
Do you really think that every single country in the world has the same values as certain groups in the EU?
- nisa 5y ago
  As far as I know most laws that are 'pushed' are based on providing equality, protection of minorities and avoiding discrimination (i.e. LBGT). Basically things like these are not okay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_anti-LGBT_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_anti-LGBT_law
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    That is only a very small part of it. The only reason laws like this exist is because they are perceived as being defensive measures against a huge “Western” cultural / media project. As the other commenter said, most of these movements have nothing to do with Eastern and Central European history, so they aren’t received well. E.g. Poland and Hungary had no colonies so anti-colonialism ideology doesn’t make much sense to be there...yet it is being pushed.
elmo2you 5y ago
I'm afraid this is not at all bullshit, even though I wish it was so. While it is true that these opposing countries no doubt each have their own problems with (local/national) corruption and oligarchies, the ideologies that are currently being forced on them are very much the product of corruption and oligarchies on a much larger scale (just better hidden). In fact, none of these ideologies are what they claim to be. This is all about powers who have essentially hijacked the EU project for their own greedy gains. This ideological criticism in reality just attempts to crush the (relatively amateurishly organized) local competition to their own hegemony. That isn't propaganda. It's an organization who cleverly knows how to abuse the general ignorance of most citizens regarding these countries and abusing it to frame reality into a conveniently useful picture/justification for their attempt to take (even more) control. As much as there is all kind of things wrong with these opposing countries, of which there indeed is plenty, there is equally nothing good or lofty about what the EU is doing at the moment. As ironic as it might be, the local corruption and oligarchies in these countries may in fact only be child's play compared what has infested the EU. The main difference probably being the success with which criminal elements within the EU have managed to hide their activities from the general population. Probably not in the least by "outsourcing" a lot of its business to either outside EU, or to local shady endeavors in these countries now criticized, where it's a lot easier to hide how profits are being made. Of course, countries like Czechia, Hungary, Poland and a few more certainly should do more about their internal corruption. But what most people forget is that the current status quo to a large degree was build up and supported by powerful figures within the EU. Most of that because these corruptions at the fringes of the EU territory just so happened to be very convenient and profitable for the people who "accidentally" let all of this happen on their watch. Mind you, figures like Victor Orban became as powerful as they are now by gaming EU rules, with the full knowledge of those who made and governed those rules!
- nisa 5y ago
  > the ideologies that are currently being forced on them are very much the product of corruption and oligarchies on a much larger scale (just better hidden). In fact, none of these ideologies are what claim to be. This is all about powers who have essentially hijacked the EU project for their own greedy gains. The ideological criticism in reality just attempts to crush the (relatively amateurishly organized) local competition to their own hegemony. That isn't propaganda. It's an organization who cleverly knows how to abuse the general ignorance of most citizens regarding these countries and abusing it to frame reality into a conveniently useful picture/justification. care to elaborate? Is it about german/france hegonomy? About keeping the eastern countries for cheap labour from western coorporations? There is lot's to dislike about the EU - would like to hear more details.

reader_mode 5y ago

Having to constantly go through American left ideology pushed so far to balance the heritage of slavery and their social issues is tiring. Racism isn't really a thing in that sense (there's gypsies but that has a very different dynamic). Gender stuff feels way too forced. These cultures are not comparable, these are not the burning issues in our society and yet they are pushed to the forefront of attention. Meanwhile we have the most systemically corrupt governments (these guys don't even do the overt things like industry engagement and speeches after their term, our former PM is in jail for straight out taking bribes in a privatisation scandal, mayor of the capital was collecting bribes for standard city functions for 20 years, the only reason this got to public attention was he died before getting re-elected, and this is endemic in all levels of society) Pushing on social agendas gives ammo to corrupt politicians to spin the story away from the important stuff and fight a strawman.