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I don't know the answer to the overall mess there, but the USA should have, at the very least, offered to take these Afghani patriots and their families away to

I don't know the answer to the overall mess there, but the USA should have, at the very least, offered to take these Afghani patriots and their families away to a safe place of their choosing. But who am I kidding, the USA barely takes care of their own soldiers, and has a history of abandoning the people of foreign countries that no longer hold interest.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yojo 5y ago
There was a program in place to allow (some of) the Afghani helping the US to immigrate. It is just moving a lot slower than the troop withdrawal, leaving them to die. https://www.npr.org/2021/06/19/1004991965/afghan-interpreters-who-await-visas-after-helping-the-u-s-now-fear-for-their-liv https://www.npr.org/2021/06/19/1004991965/afghan-interpreter...
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  We did the same damn thing last time when we fought a shadow war there against the soviets. Many historians credit America's abandonment of our Mujahideen allies with the rise of both the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
  - effingwewt 5y ago
    Shame. I kept thinking the US feels so different from when I was a kid in the 80s and 90s. But maybe it hasn't, I have. Instead of being proud to be an American, all I've felt for years now, is shame. Shit like this is why.
Amezarak 5y ago
No. Have you read the Afghanistan papers? [1] I'm sorry, but these are not people we want in our country. We spent 20 years and trillions of dollars on these people, and they blew it all on corruption and graft. In many cases they charged protection money from us, then killed Americans so they could demand more protection money. There's a reason that two decades of military armament and training has resulted in a force that the Taliban is completely rolling over. If you haven't read the Afghanistan papers, I strongly recommend it. These people are NOT our (ideological or political) allies. They almost entirely consisted of people who were simply interested in using American power and money to enrich themselves. Not to mention problems of...extreme cultural incompatibility. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-to... > From his bunk in southern Afghanistan, he could hear Afghan police officers sexually abusing boys they had brought to the base. > Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally “boy play,” and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene > "The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” said Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain who beat up an American-backed militia commander for keeping a boy chained to his bed as a sex slave. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did — that was something village elders voiced to me.” The whole situation sucks. We basically should have never been involved. It one of the most massive expenditures of American money and lives to absolutely no purpose in our history. Who knows what we could have done for Americans if that money had spent here. But we aren't going to improve anything by inviting our "allies" here. The most mindblowing thing about all this is why aren't more heads rolling? All these decorated generals and "experts" spent two trillion dollars and two decades supposedly outfitting and training up Afghan militias and police to American standards, and now according to their own assessments (in the article) they won't last six months on their own. How is it possible that the American military brass and foreign policy is so stunningly incompetent and nobody is being punished? Indeed, the people quoted in the article make clear the whole thing is just naked propaganda to spend even more time and money there after having utterly failed to do their job! [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/documents-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/...
- co_pilates 5y ago
  > these are not people we want in our country You're disgusting.
  - Amezarak 5y ago
    Did you read the linked articles? Just because people took our money and weapons doesn't mean they're good people on "our" side. Violent pederasty was a common practice in our allies - that we protected. Huge amounts of corruption was a common practice in our allies - that we protected. Even killing Americans to increase protection payments was not uncommon. Please, by all means, explain how such people could integrate into American culture and life? I'm sorry we got them involved, it was a huge mistake, but that doesn't mean the right thing to do is ship a milita commander who chains young boys to his bed and rapes them to America.
    - co_pilates 5y ago
      If I told you all Americans are responsible for the mai lai massacre and thus we don't want Americans in my country, they aren't good people, what would you say? As to the second point: your telling me that there aren't Afghanis in American who immigrated here and were able to live within our culture just fine? Fuck off. You're disgusting because you are generalizing the actions of the few into the whole of Afghanistan.
      - Amezarak 5y ago
        I would be OK with that. Even so, we're talking about one company of American soldiers versus a problem my cited sources describe as 'endemic' and the country 'rife with.' Pederasty is not a problem with a 'few', it's a problem with a lot, and it's one of the reasons the Taliban is winning - people on the ground are looking at them as morally better than the people the US enabled. Similarly, the reason two trillion dollars and twenty years has accomplished nothing isn't because of a few bad apples, it's because a huge proportion of our 'allies' are bad apples, in the sense of being US allies. I am sure there are a few 'good' people in Afghanistan. But it's also OK to recognize that sometimes people come from totally different cultures where things we regard as shocking moral violations are normalized.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

yojo 5y ago

There was a program in place to allow (some of) the Afghani helping the US to immigrate. It is just moving a lot slower than the troop withdrawal, leaving them to die. https://www.npr.org/2021/06/19/1004991965/afghan-interpreters-who-await-visas-after-helping-the-u-s-now-fear-for-their-liv https://www.npr.org/2021/06/19/1004991965/afghan-interpreter...

nate_meurer 5y ago
We did the same damn thing last time when we fought a shadow war there against the soviets. Many historians credit America's abandonment of our Mujahideen allies with the rise of both the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
- effingwewt 5y ago
  Shame. I kept thinking the US feels so different from when I was a kid in the 80s and 90s. But maybe it hasn't, I have. Instead of being proud to be an American, all I've felt for years now, is shame. Shit like this is why.

Amezarak 5y ago

No. Have you read the Afghanistan papers? [1] I'm sorry, but these are not people we want in our country. We spent 20 years and trillions of dollars on these people, and they blew it all on corruption and graft. In many cases they charged protection money from us, then killed Americans so they could demand more protection money. There's a reason that two decades of military armament and training has resulted in a force that the Taliban is completely rolling over. If you haven't read the Afghanistan papers, I strongly recommend it. These people are NOT our (ideological or political) allies. They almost entirely consisted of people who were simply interested in using American power and money to enrich themselves. Not to mention problems of...extreme cultural incompatibility. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-to... > From his bunk in southern Afghanistan, he could hear Afghan police officers sexually abusing boys they had brought to the base. > Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally “boy play,” and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene > "The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” said Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain who beat up an American-backed militia commander for keeping a boy chained to his bed as a sex slave. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did — that was something village elders voiced to me.” The whole situation sucks. We basically should have never been involved. It one of the most massive expenditures of American money and lives to absolutely no purpose in our history. Who knows what we could have done for Americans if that money had spent here. But we aren't going to improve anything by inviting our "allies" here. The most mindblowing thing about all this is why aren't more heads rolling? All these decorated generals and "experts" spent two trillion dollars and two decades supposedly outfitting and training up Afghan militias and police to American standards, and now according to their own assessments (in the article) they won't last six months on their own. How is it possible that the American military brass and foreign policy is so stunningly incompetent and nobody is being punished? Indeed, the people quoted in the article make clear the whole thing is just naked propaganda to spend even more time and money there after having utterly failed to do their job! [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/documents-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/...

co_pilates 5y ago
> these are not people we want in our country You're disgusting.
- Amezarak 5y ago
  Did you read the linked articles? Just because people took our money and weapons doesn't mean they're good people on "our" side. Violent pederasty was a common practice in our allies - that we protected. Huge amounts of corruption was a common practice in our allies - that we protected. Even killing Americans to increase protection payments was not uncommon. Please, by all means, explain how such people could integrate into American culture and life? I'm sorry we got them involved, it was a huge mistake, but that doesn't mean the right thing to do is ship a milita commander who chains young boys to his bed and rapes them to America.
  - co_pilates 5y ago
    If I told you all Americans are responsible for the mai lai massacre and thus we don't want Americans in my country, they aren't good people, what would you say? As to the second point: your telling me that there aren't Afghanis in American who immigrated here and were able to live within our culture just fine? Fuck off. You're disgusting because you are generalizing the actions of the few into the whole of Afghanistan.
    - Amezarak 5y ago
      I would be OK with that. Even so, we're talking about one company of American soldiers versus a problem my cited sources describe as 'endemic' and the country 'rife with.' Pederasty is not a problem with a 'few', it's a problem with a lot, and it's one of the reasons the Taliban is winning - people on the ground are looking at them as morally better than the people the US enabled. Similarly, the reason two trillion dollars and twenty years has accomplished nothing isn't because of a few bad apples, it's because a huge proportion of our 'allies' are bad apples, in the sense of being US allies. I am sure there are a few 'good' people in Afghanistan. But it's also OK to recognize that sometimes people come from totally different cultures where things we regard as shocking moral violations are normalized.