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From the outside the Canadian healthcare system looks good. But I have friends in Canada who complain that it’s very very hard to get an appointment for a basic

From the outside the Canadian healthcare system looks good. But I have friends in Canada who complain that it’s very very hard to get an appointment for a basic check up. They have to wait anywhere from 2 to 6 months. Also, they just end up going to emergency for anything. Your experience might vary. The same with UK also I hear. I am no big fan of the American healthcare system but I don’t think any country (don’t bring up Switzerland and Singapore as examples, they are too small and don’t have the diversity, size and complexity of the US) has demonstrated an ideal healthcare model.

dominotw 5y ago
My indian friends travel to india to get routine medical procedures. My understanding is that you get priority if you have a pressing concern but long wait times for procedures that can wait.
- FpUser 5y ago
  What is considered as "can wait" can be pretty insane sometimes.
1helloworld1 5y ago
Lot of the anecdotes like yours probably stems from a deliberate propaganda campaign started by US Health Insurance companies. This is quick npr podcast about it- https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/931990578/why-americans-have-been-deceived-about-canadas-health-care-system https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/931990578/why-americans-have-...
- dominotw 5y ago
  > Canadians might wait several weeks or a few months to get a knee replacement Hard to tell from this what else falls under "knee replacement" category of urgency. I personally know ppl who traveled to india to get a root canal. Weird to dismiss it as " deliberate propaganda campaign " and link to npr article with no actual statistics.
FpUser 5y ago
I still do not get why posts like yours get downvoted. What you say about Canada is true. Not always and depends on particular location but still there are examples of everything you just mentioned.
evgen 5y ago
Your "friends" are liars. As a simple example, here in the UK can can call my GP and have an appointment for a basic checkup within a week or two and faster if there was an issue of concern. Things are a bit overwhelmed at the moment due to the relaxation of covid restrictions and surgeries starting to ramp-up to deal with the backlog of non-covid issues, but any claim that waits are multi-month is simply not true. While no country has an ideal model, _every_ country has a better one than the US. If you put together a list of all of the worst possible decisions and mis-features you could possibly add to a public health system you would end up with the US model.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dominotw 5y ago
  why would your experience in UK make gp's canadian friends liars?
  - Redoubts 5y ago
    You’re right, gp’s “friends” are likely a fiction to launder political talking points.
    - dominotw 5y ago
      what's with blanket dismissals and calling ppl names. 20% of candians are liars? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7292524/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7292524/ "Long wait times have become a defining characteristic of the Canadian health care system. In 2016, the Commonwealth Fund ranked Canada last among 11 countries surveyed on wait times for specialist care.1 Roughly one-fifth of Canadians report being negatively affected by wait times, citing experiences of stress, anxiety, pain, lost income, delays in diagnosis and treatment, duplications of tests, and deterioration in their conditions."
      - SgtBastard 5y ago
someelephant 5y ago
In Toronto, my doc is always able to see me within two weeks for something non-urgent. They also have 24/7 number I can call to speak with a doc. And my doc responds to emails within a few hours. If there's something non-urgent but I want an answer right away I can go to a walk in clinic and be seen within an hour. The vast majority of Canadians live in dense areas like I do and have access to the same level of care.
Uke 5y ago
Am in Germany and can get a basic check up figuratively every day of the year completely for free. It might take a day for a specific appointment, but if i just went to the doctor they would see me guranteed and could assess any ailments. So there you have a country that is similar enough to the US that shows how a single payer system can work. I agree, that there is no such thing as an ideal healthcare model :)
rfurlan 5y ago
Canadian here, that’s just not true, you only have to wait if you want to see a specific specialist and they are fully booked, then you have to decide if you would rather wait or see someone else.
jsnell 5y ago
The argument about the US being too large for X gets made for all kinds of X, all the time. It tends to not make a lot of sense. As the size of the country goes up, so do the available resources. Maybe there will be a couple of layers of additional organizational overhead, but there's going to also be access to a lot more economies of scale so it should be just a wash. Why would health care be harder to scale up in terms of the size of a country than, e.g. the military or the fire brigades? As for diversity... I don't buy it for your specific example. Switzerland has: - Four official languages. - A federal system with similar levels of decision-making devolved to the cantons as to the US states - 11 political parties significant enough win seats in the parliament - High levels of immigration: 30% of the population are immigrants. The reason Switzerland shouldn't be brought up is that the health care system isn't particularly good, just different. In particular it's the second most expensive in the world.
1helloworld1 5y ago
US has the worst of both worlds. It's very expensive and the wait times for specialist visit are not particularly fast. Forbes says it takes 24 days on average to set up an appointment with an specialist in the US - https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2017/03/19/doctor-wait-times-soar-amid-trumpcare-debate/?sh=3cf856042e74 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2017/03/19/doctor-w...
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > US has the worst… it takes 24 days… to set up an appointment with an specialist. The worst? HN is one of the few forums that repeatedly leaves me speechless.
jpambrun 5y ago
I am Canadian. This is not true. Doctors are quickly available for check ups and basic stuff. Some surgery have long waiting list. I imagine 6 months would be typical for knee replacement. The good thing is that the thickness of your wallet doesn't affect your priority, just the severity of your medical needs.
SgtBastard 5y ago
Hi from Australia! Even during Covid lockdowns that Sydney is going through at the moment, I can get a GP appointment this week with a 5 minute travel time. We have a health system delivered by the States of our commonwealth, enormous distance to cover and extremely high health outcomes.
andreskytt 5y ago
So why is size and complexity an issue? Why is it that in a country of 1.3 million people I pay a reasonable amount of taxes, get free healthcare and even if I do prefer a private provider pay EUR 50.- per visit. But a similarly sized US town can’t do that. So maybe the role of the feds is to make it so that the size and complexity would matter less?

dominotw 5y ago

My indian friends travel to india to get routine medical procedures. My understanding is that you get priority if you have a pressing concern but long wait times for procedures that can wait.

FpUser 5y ago
What is considered as "can wait" can be pretty insane sometimes.

1helloworld1 5y ago

Lot of the anecdotes like yours probably stems from a deliberate propaganda campaign started by US Health Insurance companies. This is quick npr podcast about it- https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/931990578/why-americans-have-been-deceived-about-canadas-health-care-system https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/931990578/why-americans-have-...

dominotw 5y ago
> Canadians might wait several weeks or a few months to get a knee replacement Hard to tell from this what else falls under "knee replacement" category of urgency. I personally know ppl who traveled to india to get a root canal. Weird to dismiss it as " deliberate propaganda campaign " and link to npr article with no actual statistics.

FpUser 5y ago

I still do not get why posts like yours get downvoted. What you say about Canada is true. Not always and depends on particular location but still there are examples of everything you just mentioned.

evgen 5y ago

Your "friends" are liars. As a simple example, here in the UK can can call my GP and have an appointment for a basic checkup within a week or two and faster if there was an issue of concern. Things are a bit overwhelmed at the moment due to the relaxation of covid restrictions and surgeries starting to ramp-up to deal with the backlog of non-covid issues, but any claim that waits are multi-month is simply not true. While no country has an ideal model, _every_ country has a better one than the US. If you put together a list of all of the worst possible decisions and mis-features you could possibly add to a public health system you would end up with the US model.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dominotw 5y ago
why would your experience in UK make gp's canadian friends liars?
- Redoubts 5y ago
  You’re right, gp’s “friends” are likely a fiction to launder political talking points.
  - dominotw 5y ago
    what's with blanket dismissals and calling ppl names. 20% of candians are liars? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7292524/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7292524/ "Long wait times have become a defining characteristic of the Canadian health care system. In 2016, the Commonwealth Fund ranked Canada last among 11 countries surveyed on wait times for specialist care.1 Roughly one-fifth of Canadians report being negatively affected by wait times, citing experiences of stress, anxiety, pain, lost income, delays in diagnosis and treatment, duplications of tests, and deterioration in their conditions."
    - SgtBastard 5y ago

someelephant 5y ago

In Toronto, my doc is always able to see me within two weeks for something non-urgent. They also have 24/7 number I can call to speak with a doc. And my doc responds to emails within a few hours. If there's something non-urgent but I want an answer right away I can go to a walk in clinic and be seen within an hour. The vast majority of Canadians live in dense areas like I do and have access to the same level of care.

Uke 5y ago

Am in Germany and can get a basic check up figuratively every day of the year completely for free. It might take a day for a specific appointment, but if i just went to the doctor they would see me guranteed and could assess any ailments. So there you have a country that is similar enough to the US that shows how a single payer system can work. I agree, that there is no such thing as an ideal healthcare model :)

rfurlan 5y ago

Canadian here, that’s just not true, you only have to wait if you want to see a specific specialist and they are fully booked, then you have to decide if you would rather wait or see someone else.

jsnell 5y ago

The argument about the US being too large for X gets made for all kinds of X, all the time. It tends to not make a lot of sense. As the size of the country goes up, so do the available resources. Maybe there will be a couple of layers of additional organizational overhead, but there's going to also be access to a lot more economies of scale so it should be just a wash. Why would health care be harder to scale up in terms of the size of a country than, e.g. the military or the fire brigades? As for diversity... I don't buy it for your specific example. Switzerland has: - Four official languages. - A federal system with similar levels of decision-making devolved to the cantons as to the US states - 11 political parties significant enough win seats in the parliament - High levels of immigration: 30% of the population are immigrants. The reason Switzerland shouldn't be brought up is that the health care system isn't particularly good, just different. In particular it's the second most expensive in the world.

1helloworld1 5y ago

US has the worst of both worlds. It's very expensive and the wait times for specialist visit are not particularly fast. Forbes says it takes 24 days on average to set up an appointment with an specialist in the US - https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2017/03/19/doctor-wait-times-soar-amid-trumpcare-debate/?sh=3cf856042e74 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2017/03/19/doctor-w...

throwaway210222 5y ago
> US has the worst… it takes 24 days… to set up an appointment with an specialist. The worst? HN is one of the few forums that repeatedly leaves me speechless.

jpambrun 5y ago

I am Canadian. This is not true. Doctors are quickly available for check ups and basic stuff. Some surgery have long waiting list. I imagine 6 months would be typical for knee replacement. The good thing is that the thickness of your wallet doesn't affect your priority, just the severity of your medical needs.

SgtBastard 5y ago

Hi from Australia! Even during Covid lockdowns that Sydney is going through at the moment, I can get a GP appointment this week with a 5 minute travel time. We have a health system delivered by the States of our commonwealth, enormous distance to cover and extremely high health outcomes.

andreskytt 5y ago

So why is size and complexity an issue? Why is it that in a country of 1.3 million people I pay a reasonable amount of taxes, get free healthcare and even if I do prefer a private provider pay EUR 50.- per visit. But a similarly sized US town can’t do that. So maybe the role of the feds is to make it so that the size and complexity would matter less?