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I have directly observed and interacted with quite a few people who went through that process. Those who stayed in the village, or kept a social network there d
by Bayart 5y ago
I have directly observed and interacted with quite a few people who went through that process. Those who stayed in the village, or kept a social network there despite moving to the city, more or less all speak it still despite having learned French in school and being told the patois was best forgotten. Those who despise it the most and don't speak it anymore are those who moved out, climbed the social ladder and became mid or upper class in a city. Schooling certainly favoured that outcome, but it was ultimately determined by economics. If France had followed a less radical path, Occitan, Breton and others would be declining instead of dying, but they'd still end dead soon enough.
On a side note, I find the whole victim mentality attached to that subject deplorable, in particular coming from young people who've never been through any sort of actual oppression. People have all the tools nowadays to perpetuate their language, but there's a lot more whining than actually putting the work into teaching it to their kids and actively speaking it.
- enriquto 5y agoOf all places, HN was probably the last one where I would have expected to read such a disgusting defence of linguistic genocide. I'm at a loss. Honestly cannot reply to such bullshit without strong words. I hope some day you will understand that what you are saying is not alright, but I won't be able to help you in that. Have a good day.
- mannerheim 5y agoIf France had followed a less radical path, Occitania might be a separate nation today. There's no denying the efficacy of the French nationalist movement.
- enriquto 5y agoThe audacity of French nationalists; I love France but I really cannot stand that! They speak of "the village", but it's in fact many major cities in the country (Marselha, Tolosa, Perpinyà, Strossburi, Brest, Naoned) that were not French-speaking less than a couple of centuries ago. For some people, anything out of Paris is a tiny country village without importance.
- Bayart 5y ago"Naoned", that is to say Nantes, has never been Breton speaking. Same for Rennes. They were part of the March of Brittany set up to specifically defend against the Bretons, but they successfully annexed it in the commotion left by the Norsemen. The court of Brittany became French-speaking when it moved there. Also, nobody in Marseille writes "Marselha", If you want to do some out of place indigenous rights dog whistling, the proper orthography in Provencal is Marsiho. Normalized Occitan is of ill repute in Provence, and so is the associated Occitanism.
- Bayart 5y ago>Occitania might be a separate nation today There might have been a State across the lines of Old Gascony, and one across the lines of the lands of the Counts of Barcelona and Provence. But an "Occitan nation" is pure fantasy. There's never been much of a unifying cultural force (even at the peek of the Troubadour age), even less of a political one (save for France itself). That word "occitania" wasn't even used before the 70s and it's still far from widespread use outside of Languedoc, and for some reason Italy. People have way too many daydreams about that stuff. But having one major Gallo-Romance nation is a natural outcome, even if the way the French State was re-factored around the turn of the 19th c. looks forced.
- mannerheim 5y agoThere had never been a Finnish state prior to the 20th century, either.