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I used to be so enthusiastic about space. I really hate the privatization of space. It makes me sick. Maybe they can just take their billions and do this shit a

I used to be so enthusiastic about space. I really hate the privatization of space. It makes me sick. Maybe they can just take their billions and do this shit and we can ignore them doing it or something? How am I supposed to get excited about anything related to space when private dickwheels have turned it into a fun ass roller coaster instead of exploration of what it means to exist?

fastball 5y ago
You don't think these "private dickwheels" are interested in space exploration?
- stuntkite 5y ago
  I think the US should subsidize NASA instead of Musk and Bezos. I think the privatization of space and the fanfare related to it is a huge problem. I don't even know what to say about Branson other than I just wish he'd chill out and go kite boarding with young models strapped to his back or whatever.
  - NavinF 5y ago
    Dude the article is about Virgin Galactic, not Musk/Bezos. There are no subsidies involved. Btw do you think the US should pay $400 million/launch for Crew Dragon or $1.5 billion/launch for the Space Shuttle? I know which one I'd pay :) How about SLS's $2 billion/launch + fixed costs vs Starship?
    - stuntkite 5y ago
      We fund Vigrin as well. I just dislike Musk and Bezos more. In general I think private space exploration is dangerous and stupid. https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q1-earnings-supersonic-travel-space-tourism-60-million-loss https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q... https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-galactic-and-a-peer-for-45-millio/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-g...
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    Hasn't the US been subsidizing NASA and at this point hasn't it become clear that the Musk route is delivering a lot more?
    - stuntkite 5y ago
      NASA is pretty hamstrung in favor of subsidizing private space exploration built off of NASA and others research and continuing to develop through in large part US government contracts. Musk is a huckster. His engineers have done a great job figuring out reverse rocketry and a bunch of other stuff. He launched "his" (stolen) car into space to punk someone. Sure. Seeing those rockets land is amazing. I don't think we need to follow the bro smoking blunts on Joe Rogan into our future. I think he's a dangerous person and it shouldn't be left up to him how we move into space flight. Also he shouldn't be able to own the IP. Starlink is a short sighted endeavor that is going to really fuck up a lot of stuff. Musk is the worst offender really. His blatant lies about what the Starship can do and what he can accomplish are constant. You only need to look at what his hustle was with the solar roofs and solar city to see what his values are. Common Sense Skeptic on Youtube has done a pretty good job cataloging the problems with what Musk is trying to do. I guess I'd recommend that if you are interested. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgKWj1pn3_7hRSFIypunYog/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgKWj1pn3_7hRSFIypunYog/vid...
      - systemvoltage 5y ago
        I disagree. I think we should fund private industry and increase the current expenditures by 10x. I love Bezos and Musk. They’re visionaries and have changed the world. Anti-billionairism is rage induced by excessive consumption of social media.
NavinF 5y ago
Space has never been a "exploration of what it means to exist" for me. It's always been about cool tech that I look forward to using. I thought this was a forum for engineers, not envious spiritualists. All these billionares are funding companies that build spacecraft while we sit on our asses debugging memory leaks. I fully intend to ride an orbital vehicle (not the one in the article) in a couple of decades when the prices have gone down to a couple of million dollars rather than the $50mm NASA charges today
- stuntkite 5y ago
  They get a lot of public funds to do this shit. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of them. Maybe a bit of bureaucracy could be useful. I'm just sick of the worship of these guys like they built the damn things with their own hands or even out of their own pocket books. It's a playground and anything they do achieve is now their IP even though they've leveraged the resources of the greater population to pull it off for just some whacky stunts. Space tourism is ridiculous. I saw your edit. It's ok. Just so you know, you'll never get to space.
  - NavinF 5y ago
    Public funds? Citation needed. Are we even talking about the same company?
    - stuntkite 5y ago
      With a quick google: https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-galactic-and-a-peer-for-45-millio/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-g... https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-signs-contract-for-suborbital-research-mission/ https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-signs-contract-for-sub... https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q1-earnings-supersonic-travel-space-tourism-60-million-loss https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q... https://investors.virgingalactic.com/news/news-details/2021/Virgin-Galactic-Announces-New-Contract-for-Human-tended-Research-Spaceflight/default.aspx https://investors.virgingalactic.com/news/news-details/2021/... https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-contract-for-flight-and-integration-services https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-contract-for-... https://newrepublic.com/article/160500/elon-musks-big-government-grift#:~:text=A%202015%20Los%20Angeles%20Times,effects%20of%20the%20Great%20Recession https://newrepublic.com/article/160500/elon-musks-big-govern.... https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-verify/senate-isnt-trying-to-give-blue-origin-bailout/536-cf500f1f-f4eb-40e2-8dfb-520f96b83272 https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-ve...
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
So space exploration should go back to its roots and what it's really about? The military conflict between two superpowers? A race to beat each other to the moon for propaganda purposes. Nice.
- stuntkite 5y ago
  It's all fun and games until Musk locks us in with tons of Starlink debris. I think public funded organizations (which these private orgs operate with a lot of public funds) are more incentivized to not launch their car (stolen from their ousted business partner) into space.
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    There needs to be regulation for sure, but that means holding everyone accountable, private space companies and governments. US, Russian and Chinese government programs have already created more debris than private companies could afford even if they tried. The 2007 Chinese anti-missile test alone left a debris field with over 35000 pieces larger than 1 cm, hundreds of them of really significant size. This was intentional! Private companies on the other hand will do everything to avoid collisions and further debris, it goes against their financial interest and only hinders their own operations.
    - stuntkite 5y ago
      I am unsure of your reasoning that private companies have any incentive not to absolutely destroy the thing they are exploiting. It's exceedingly rare for any quarterly growth based company to not do whatever to maximize profit in 3 months. Good examples might be the ocean being on fire recently, leaded gas, the tobacco industry, the sugar or corn industry, oil and gas (obviously), facebook, cable news, the panama/paradise papers, or Ticketmaster.
      - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
        To take your obvious oil and gas example, it would be like them setting their own wells on fire. Oil companies are very keen on avoiding this, the same way a space company would try to avoid trashing earth orbit because that would destroy their business.
elefanten 5y ago
If we’re going with maximum cynicism: how are nationalist bureaucrats and bloodthirsty generals any better?
- stuntkite 5y ago
  Maybe what was wasn't good enough and this new thing is still also not good enough. It's a big question, probably one of the biggest.
golergka 5y ago
I feel exactly the opposite way. The space used to be an area where only the governments, the most tyrannical, beurocratic and evil entities on the planet, prevailed; now it's increasingly free and open to private enterprise. I just can't fathom how one could sympathize with NASA that's kept afloat with taxes, and not with people who fund it out of their own pocket and thrive for it to become profitable.
- 8note 5y ago
  Its not really out of their own pocket, they're kept afloat by taxes just the same as nasa. I can sympathize far more with the tax money going towards public property, rather than to rich people so that they can monopolize space tech

fastball 5y ago

You don't think these "private dickwheels" are interested in space exploration?

stuntkite 5y ago
I think the US should subsidize NASA instead of Musk and Bezos. I think the privatization of space and the fanfare related to it is a huge problem. I don't even know what to say about Branson other than I just wish he'd chill out and go kite boarding with young models strapped to his back or whatever.
- NavinF 5y ago
  Dude the article is about Virgin Galactic, not Musk/Bezos. There are no subsidies involved. Btw do you think the US should pay $400 million/launch for Crew Dragon or $1.5 billion/launch for the Space Shuttle? I know which one I'd pay :) How about SLS's $2 billion/launch + fixed costs vs Starship?
  - stuntkite 5y ago
    We fund Vigrin as well. I just dislike Musk and Bezos more. In general I think private space exploration is dangerous and stupid. https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q1-earnings-supersonic-travel-space-tourism-60-million-loss https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q... https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-galactic-and-a-peer-for-45-millio/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-g...
- Tenoke 5y ago
  Hasn't the US been subsidizing NASA and at this point hasn't it become clear that the Musk route is delivering a lot more?
  - stuntkite 5y ago
    NASA is pretty hamstrung in favor of subsidizing private space exploration built off of NASA and others research and continuing to develop through in large part US government contracts. Musk is a huckster. His engineers have done a great job figuring out reverse rocketry and a bunch of other stuff. He launched "his" (stolen) car into space to punk someone. Sure. Seeing those rockets land is amazing. I don't think we need to follow the bro smoking blunts on Joe Rogan into our future. I think he's a dangerous person and it shouldn't be left up to him how we move into space flight. Also he shouldn't be able to own the IP. Starlink is a short sighted endeavor that is going to really fuck up a lot of stuff. Musk is the worst offender really. His blatant lies about what the Starship can do and what he can accomplish are constant. You only need to look at what his hustle was with the solar roofs and solar city to see what his values are. Common Sense Skeptic on Youtube has done a pretty good job cataloging the problems with what Musk is trying to do. I guess I'd recommend that if you are interested. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgKWj1pn3_7hRSFIypunYog/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgKWj1pn3_7hRSFIypunYog/vid...
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      I disagree. I think we should fund private industry and increase the current expenditures by 10x. I love Bezos and Musk. They’re visionaries and have changed the world. Anti-billionairism is rage induced by excessive consumption of social media.

NavinF 5y ago

Space has never been a "exploration of what it means to exist" for me. It's always been about cool tech that I look forward to using. I thought this was a forum for engineers, not envious spiritualists. All these billionares are funding companies that build spacecraft while we sit on our asses debugging memory leaks. I fully intend to ride an orbital vehicle (not the one in the article) in a couple of decades when the prices have gone down to a couple of million dollars rather than the $50mm NASA charges today

stuntkite 5y ago
They get a lot of public funds to do this shit. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of them. Maybe a bit of bureaucracy could be useful. I'm just sick of the worship of these guys like they built the damn things with their own hands or even out of their own pocket books. It's a playground and anything they do achieve is now their IP even though they've leveraged the resources of the greater population to pull it off for just some whacky stunts. Space tourism is ridiculous. I saw your edit. It's ok. Just so you know, you'll never get to space.
- NavinF 5y ago
  Public funds? Citation needed. Are we even talking about the same company?
  - stuntkite 5y ago
    With a quick google: https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-galactic-and-a-peer-for-45-millio/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/12/01/nasa-taps-virgin-g... https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-signs-contract-for-suborbital-research-mission/ https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-signs-contract-for-sub... https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q1-earnings-supersonic-travel-space-tourism-60-million-loss https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248289/virgin-galactic-q... https://investors.virgingalactic.com/news/news-details/2021/Virgin-Galactic-Announces-New-Contract-for-Human-tended-Research-Spaceflight/default.aspx https://investors.virgingalactic.com/news/news-details/2021/... https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-contract-for-flight-and-integration-services https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-contract-for-... https://newrepublic.com/article/160500/elon-musks-big-government-grift#:~:text=A%202015%20Los%20Angeles%20Times,effects%20of%20the%20Great%20Recession https://newrepublic.com/article/160500/elon-musks-big-govern.... https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-verify/senate-isnt-trying-to-give-blue-origin-bailout/536-cf500f1f-f4eb-40e2-8dfb-520f96b83272 https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-ve...

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

So space exploration should go back to its roots and what it's really about? The military conflict between two superpowers? A race to beat each other to the moon for propaganda purposes. Nice.

stuntkite 5y ago
It's all fun and games until Musk locks us in with tons of Starlink debris. I think public funded organizations (which these private orgs operate with a lot of public funds) are more incentivized to not launch their car (stolen from their ousted business partner) into space.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  There needs to be regulation for sure, but that means holding everyone accountable, private space companies and governments. US, Russian and Chinese government programs have already created more debris than private companies could afford even if they tried. The 2007 Chinese anti-missile test alone left a debris field with over 35000 pieces larger than 1 cm, hundreds of them of really significant size. This was intentional! Private companies on the other hand will do everything to avoid collisions and further debris, it goes against their financial interest and only hinders their own operations.
  - stuntkite 5y ago
    I am unsure of your reasoning that private companies have any incentive not to absolutely destroy the thing they are exploiting. It's exceedingly rare for any quarterly growth based company to not do whatever to maximize profit in 3 months. Good examples might be the ocean being on fire recently, leaded gas, the tobacco industry, the sugar or corn industry, oil and gas (obviously), facebook, cable news, the panama/paradise papers, or Ticketmaster.
    - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
      To take your obvious oil and gas example, it would be like them setting their own wells on fire. Oil companies are very keen on avoiding this, the same way a space company would try to avoid trashing earth orbit because that would destroy their business.

elefanten 5y ago

If we’re going with maximum cynicism: how are nationalist bureaucrats and bloodthirsty generals any better?

stuntkite 5y ago
Maybe what was wasn't good enough and this new thing is still also not good enough. It's a big question, probably one of the biggest.

golergka 5y ago

I feel exactly the opposite way. The space used to be an area where only the governments, the most tyrannical, beurocratic and evil entities on the planet, prevailed; now it's increasingly free and open to private enterprise. I just can't fathom how one could sympathize with NASA that's kept afloat with taxes, and not with people who fund it out of their own pocket and thrive for it to become profitable.

8note 5y ago
Its not really out of their own pocket, they're kept afloat by taxes just the same as nasa. I can sympathize far more with the tax money going towards public property, rather than to rich people so that they can monopolize space tech