8 ms·
I really want CSP to succeed for no other reason than I find it much more exciting from a childish mechanically fascinating point of view. However, all indicat
by VBprogrammer 5y ago
I really want CSP to succeed for no other reason than I find it much more exciting from a childish mechanically fascinating point of view.
However, all indications at the moment are that solar + lithium storage is winning this battle. We are seeing larger farms with more installed storage every year.
Perhaps CSP might flourish in certain niches, particularly those where waste heat and / or industrial high temperature processes are required in addition to electricity production.
- cinquemb 5y ago> We are seeing larger farms with more installed storage every year. Same is happening with CSP, just way less so in the US. CSP with MS storage is already cheaper on a LCOE basis than nuclear, esp factoring storage [0]. Lots of PV analysis never includes storage costs (and for obvious reasons). I think Li tech is probably better served for individual consumer applications (because of all the constraints) than at the grid level. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23589828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23589828
- nl 5y agoJust about everything is cheaper than nuclear these days!
- cinquemb 5y agoPV with Li storage isnt!
- nl 5y agoLi storage is currently only really used for grid stability style installations at the gird-scale level (ie, as an alternative to gas-peaker plants). Li is convenient for residential installations, but it's possible other batteries are better at industrial and grid scale. Lazard's latest (2020) levelized energy cost comparison[1] shows the unsubsidised cost comparing like this: Nuclear: $129-$198 MWh (1st chart) Solar Wholesale PV + Storage: $188-$329 MWh. This excludes the (huge) further price reductions in PV noted in the linked article. The wholesale solar does include flow batteries as well as Li storage. The whole storage report[2] is worth reading[2]. [1] https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-and-levelized-cost-of-storage-2020/ https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-... [2] https://www.lazard.com/media/451566/lazards-levelized-cost-of-storage-version-60-vf2.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/451566/lazards-levelized-cost-o...
- hulitu 5y agoFor solar you need sun. I live in a region where the sun does not shine so often.
- cinquemb 5y agoYeah, but you probably have roads, rail, and ports. It wouldn't be impossible to move vats of molten salt at scale to different locations from collection for usage via HEX and typical Rankine power cycle systems (i.e. steam).
- CyberDildonics 5y agoYou think it would be efficient to move vats of molten salt on railroads "at scale" (at what scale?). Where does that expectation come from? Here is a very efficient method for moving power: a copper cable.
- cinquemb 5y ago> Here is a very efficient method for moving power: a copper cable. Right, texas natgas producers should just run a copper cable directly to places like Singapore!
- CyberDildonics 5y agoI have no idea what you are trying to say. Were you talking about shipping molten salt using railroads from texas to singapore "at scale", because I'm not super convinced that would work.
- cinquemb 5y ago> because I'm not super convinced that would work. I think its because you missed > ports Other energy products are shipped on tankers: CL, NG. Once they arrive at a certain country, they can be disbursed over roads and rail to plants; CI and residential alike.