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It's pretty hard to make a case against VAERs when everyone that died WITH Covid was ruled a Covid death. Applying the same fear mongering rules to the Vaccine

by ipspam 5y ago

It's pretty hard to make a case against VAERs when everyone that died WITH Covid was ruled a Covid death. Applying the same fear mongering rules to the Vaccine is where we are now. Take out 90ish% of the Covid deaths, and the pandemic isnt serious, nor are the vaccine reactions. Keep the VAERs and the current Covid accounting and nobody under 18 should be vaccinated. 18-30 is unknown. 30+ should probably still be vaxxed. The propoganda monster has swallowed its own tale

addicted 5y ago
This is absolutely false when any reasonable analysis of excess deaths shows that COVID deaths were vastly undercounted across the world. And the issue with VAERS being misused to create doubts about vaccines by anti-vaxxers has existed long before COVID was something anyone had ever heard about, so your claim that COVID death counting procedures have something to do with the VARRS misuse is also easily proven false, unless the anti vaxxers time traveled.
- manwe150 5y ago
  Wow, yeah. There was several months where the daily count of unvaccinated deaths in the US exceeded the total count of VAERS deaths. I don’t know where he got his numbers, but seems like he dropped a couple orders of magnitude from his comparisons? Miscoding 90% of deaths might not be an official pandemic by some definition, but still is substantially more deadly than the vaccine, even if those were vastly underreported. (I do not claim either seems likely—I agree with you they possible go in the other direction)
- ipspam 5y ago
  You'll need to jump to my conclusion that under 18 shouldn't be vaxxed. That's an easily supported position. https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/ https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-... 170 deaths under 14. That's statistically no different than 0 given the way Covid deaths are counted. Now take VAERs, 12-17 years, which is the youngest so far. This week’s data for 12- to 17-year-olds show: 13,385 total adverse events, including 801 rated as serious and 14 reported deaths among 12- to 17-year-olds. Two of the nine deaths were suicides. The most recent reported death includes a 13-year-old boy (VAERS I.D. 1431289) with a previous history of COVID who suffered cardiac arrest and died 17 days after vaccination with Pfizer.Other reports include a 13-year-old boy (VAERS I.D. 1406840) who died two days after receiving a Pfizer vaccine, three 15-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1187918, 1382906 and 1242573), four 16-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1420630, 1426828, 1225942 and 1386841) and three 17-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1199455, 1388042 and 1420762). 1,934 reports of anaphylaxis among 12- to 17-year-olds with 99% of cases attributed to Pfizer’s vaccine, 1.1% to Moderna and 0.2% (or four cases) to J&J. 347 reports of myocarditis and pericarditis (heart inflammation) with 343 attributed to Pfizer’s vaccine. 57 reports of blood clotting disorders, 56 attributed to Pfizer and 1 attributed to Moderna. Most of the difference is explainable by the method of counting. Kids shouldn't be getting vaccines.
  - tylerhou 5y ago
    If you die 17 days after vaccination, that's probably not related to the vaccine itself. Second, you haven't accounted for the fact that teenagers can transmit the virus. Even if the vaccine is "worse" the virus for teenagers (which is not necessarily true), stopping the pandemic can mean fewer deaths in the long run.
    - pwner39 5y ago
      A thirteen year old kid dies from a heart attack a couple weeks after taking the vaccine and you think the vaccine was probably not the cause? Seriously? Second, kids/teenagers shouldn't get the vaccine if the chance of the vaccine affecting them negatively is higher than that of COVID-19. Everybody that is seriously at risk when it comes to COVID-19 (the elderly and the ones with underlying conditions/obesity) should have already received their doses.
      - tylerhou 5y ago
        You have no idea what underlying conditions the kid might have had. By 17 days there is probably only trace amounts of the vaccine left in the body. Second, you (or the original poster) can't criticize the methodology of counting Covid deaths (every person who tested positive is counted as a death) and then use the exact same methodology to count vaccine deaths.
        swiley 5y ago
        I think they just want something consistent which is reasonable.
        Vecr 5y ago
        If the vaccine causes an inflammation process there's no reason myocarditis or something similar could not last for weeks at least. I don't think a heart attack at 17 days is out of the question. You don't need actual antigen for inflammation to stay around, that's immediately obvious if you look at some people's arms and lymph nodes a week or more after vaccination.
- guilhas 5y ago
  The CDC website states that only 6% of covid dead people were not already dying from something else Definitely over counting just tagging them because at some point had symptoms or a positive test So being picky about the reported 1 by 1 VAERS data is ridiculous
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    No, 6% of people dying of COVID had no known pre-existing conditions. Most Americans have one of these pre-existing conditions; more than 40% are obese, 45% have hypertension. Having one doesn't mean you're about to die of it. Many of those 94% wouldn't have keeled over anytime soon without COVID intervening.

by ipspam 5y ago

addicted 5y ago

This is absolutely false when any reasonable analysis of excess deaths shows that COVID deaths were vastly undercounted across the world. And the issue with VAERS being misused to create doubts about vaccines by anti-vaxxers has existed long before COVID was something anyone had ever heard about, so your claim that COVID death counting procedures have something to do with the VARRS misuse is also easily proven false, unless the anti vaxxers time traveled.

manwe150 5y ago
Wow, yeah. There was several months where the daily count of unvaccinated deaths in the US exceeded the total count of VAERS deaths. I don’t know where he got his numbers, but seems like he dropped a couple orders of magnitude from his comparisons? Miscoding 90% of deaths might not be an official pandemic by some definition, but still is substantially more deadly than the vaccine, even if those were vastly underreported. (I do not claim either seems likely—I agree with you they possible go in the other direction)
ipspam 5y ago
You'll need to jump to my conclusion that under 18 shouldn't be vaxxed. That's an easily supported position. https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/ https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-... 170 deaths under 14. That's statistically no different than 0 given the way Covid deaths are counted. Now take VAERs, 12-17 years, which is the youngest so far. This week’s data for 12- to 17-year-olds show: 13,385 total adverse events, including 801 rated as serious and 14 reported deaths among 12- to 17-year-olds. Two of the nine deaths were suicides. The most recent reported death includes a 13-year-old boy (VAERS I.D. 1431289) with a previous history of COVID who suffered cardiac arrest and died 17 days after vaccination with Pfizer.Other reports include a 13-year-old boy (VAERS I.D. 1406840) who died two days after receiving a Pfizer vaccine, three 15-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1187918, 1382906 and 1242573), four 16-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1420630, 1426828, 1225942 and 1386841) and three 17-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1199455, 1388042 and 1420762). 1,934 reports of anaphylaxis among 12- to 17-year-olds with 99% of cases attributed to Pfizer’s vaccine, 1.1% to Moderna and 0.2% (or four cases) to J&J. 347 reports of myocarditis and pericarditis (heart inflammation) with 343 attributed to Pfizer’s vaccine. 57 reports of blood clotting disorders, 56 attributed to Pfizer and 1 attributed to Moderna. Most of the difference is explainable by the method of counting. Kids shouldn't be getting vaccines.
- tylerhou 5y ago
  If you die 17 days after vaccination, that's probably not related to the vaccine itself. Second, you haven't accounted for the fact that teenagers can transmit the virus. Even if the vaccine is "worse" the virus for teenagers (which is not necessarily true), stopping the pandemic can mean fewer deaths in the long run.
  - pwner39 5y ago
    A thirteen year old kid dies from a heart attack a couple weeks after taking the vaccine and you think the vaccine was probably not the cause? Seriously? Second, kids/teenagers shouldn't get the vaccine if the chance of the vaccine affecting them negatively is higher than that of COVID-19. Everybody that is seriously at risk when it comes to COVID-19 (the elderly and the ones with underlying conditions/obesity) should have already received their doses.
    - tylerhou 5y ago
      You have no idea what underlying conditions the kid might have had. By 17 days there is probably only trace amounts of the vaccine left in the body. Second, you (or the original poster) can't criticize the methodology of counting Covid deaths (every person who tested positive is counted as a death) and then use the exact same methodology to count vaccine deaths.
      - swiley 5y ago
        I think they just want something consistent which is reasonable.
      - Vecr 5y ago
        If the vaccine causes an inflammation process there's no reason myocarditis or something similar could not last for weeks at least. I don't think a heart attack at 17 days is out of the question. You don't need actual antigen for inflammation to stay around, that's immediately obvious if you look at some people's arms and lymph nodes a week or more after vaccination.
guilhas 5y ago
The CDC website states that only 6% of covid dead people were not already dying from something else Definitely over counting just tagging them because at some point had symptoms or a positive test So being picky about the reported 1 by 1 VAERS data is ridiculous
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  No, 6% of people dying of COVID had no known pre-existing conditions. Most Americans have one of these pre-existing conditions; more than 40% are obese, 45% have hypertension. Having one doesn't mean you're about to die of it. Many of those 94% wouldn't have keeled over anytime soon without COVID intervening.