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This is one of the things that depresses me the most… rich countries don’t even need to be altruistic here. Be entirely selfish: send vaccines to worse off coun

This is one of the things that depresses me the most… rich countries don’t even need to be altruistic here. Be entirely selfish: send vaccines to worse off countries to cut down on the number of mutations that will inevitably arrive on your shores. The really depressing part is that the exact same logic applies to climate change, so I’m not exactly full of hope for the future right now.

makomk 5y ago
It doesn't matter whether your justification for why this should happen is altruism or selfishness, the same problem remains: a vaccination program of the scale and speed we've already seen is literally unprecedented, it's astounding that everyone managed this much, and yet even with that incredible effort there still aren't the doses to vaccinate the planet any time in the imminent future let alone the on-the-ground infrastructure to deliver them everywhere - and even the rich, developed countries with the best vaccine rollouts out there probably haven't reached herd immunity before new variants made that impractical or even impossible with the current vaccines. This isn't that remarkable. Previous attempts to deal with respiratory disease pandemics using vaccines have proved pretty futile, even though it is a standard part of pandemic planning.
- oezi 5y ago
  I think the remarkable thing is that vaccine development and manufacturing is one of the smallest costs of the pandemic. For example the cost of a dose of Biontech Pfizer vaccine is roughly the same as the cost of getting a single antigen test performed in Germany (both roughly 20 EUR). With the variants/mutations it seems we should invest much more in vaccine capacity to avoid spending 2022 in another lockdown. > there still aren't the doses to vaccinate the planet any time in the imminent future let alone the on-the-ground infrastructure to deliver them everywhere I think the vaccinations campaigns everywhere (in the developed world at least) have shown that the infrastructure to vaccinate everyone is there if only we have enough supplies of vaccines.
  - oceanplexian 5y ago
    Half the worlds population lives on less than $5.50 per day. If you offered them 20 EUR they wouldn’t use it on a vaccine for a highly survivable disease (Compared to HIV, Malaria, and TB), they’d use it to buy food and water.
searealist 5y ago
mRNA vaccines have extreme cold storage requirements that make it very difficult to distribute to many places in the world.
- unmole 5y ago
  According to EU guidelunes, the Pfizer vaccine can be stored for a month at normal refridgerator temperature.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  It's not entirely impossible, I'm sure we would be fine with in in South Africa, and many African countries. Just need consistent power. But yes that is a hindrance.
enaaem 5y ago
It is not a matter of not willing to share, but a capacity problem. All production is fully bought up. Throwing more money at it won't increase the supply.
- alsetmusic 5y ago
  > It is not a matter of not willing to share, but a capacity problem. All production is fully bought up. Throwing more money at it won't increase the supply. This is why we should suspend IP / patent protection and increase production.
  - prox 5y ago
    That has already happened I think, but creating a new pipeline is hard. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/06/covid-vaccines-what-is-patent-waiving-and-will-it-solve-the-global-shortage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/06/covid-vaccines...
  - T-A 5y ago
    Suspending IP protection does nothing to increase production capacity.
  - jlmorton 5y ago
    Moderna has said for over a year that anyone is free to use their IP. Intellectual property has precisely zero to do with production capacity.
    - amluto 5y ago
      There’s IP and then there’s IP. If Moderna published their complete protocols, cell lines, etc and allowed any qualified manufacturer to pay $5k/hr to consult with Moderna experts on how exactly to manufacture the vaccine, I wonder if there would be more supply.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  What is stopping us from linearly scaling mRNA vaccine production? If throwing money at it won't help, there should be specific answers to that question.
csomar 5y ago
It's not really about being rich but availability (at least at first). The vaccine costs between $3 and $20[1] which is accessible for most of the third-world and even in most countries in Africa. > so I’m not exactly full of hope for the future right now Don't be. The vaccine is being used as a political tool currently (Pfizer good, Sinovac bad, etc...) and to restrict/grant movement around countries. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belgian-minister-accidentally-tweets-eus-covid-vaccine-price-list https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belgian-minist...

makomk 5y ago

It doesn't matter whether your justification for why this should happen is altruism or selfishness, the same problem remains: a vaccination program of the scale and speed we've already seen is literally unprecedented, it's astounding that everyone managed this much, and yet even with that incredible effort there still aren't the doses to vaccinate the planet any time in the imminent future let alone the on-the-ground infrastructure to deliver them everywhere - and even the rich, developed countries with the best vaccine rollouts out there probably haven't reached herd immunity before new variants made that impractical or even impossible with the current vaccines. This isn't that remarkable. Previous attempts to deal with respiratory disease pandemics using vaccines have proved pretty futile, even though it is a standard part of pandemic planning.

oezi 5y ago
I think the remarkable thing is that vaccine development and manufacturing is one of the smallest costs of the pandemic. For example the cost of a dose of Biontech Pfizer vaccine is roughly the same as the cost of getting a single antigen test performed in Germany (both roughly 20 EUR). With the variants/mutations it seems we should invest much more in vaccine capacity to avoid spending 2022 in another lockdown. > there still aren't the doses to vaccinate the planet any time in the imminent future let alone the on-the-ground infrastructure to deliver them everywhere I think the vaccinations campaigns everywhere (in the developed world at least) have shown that the infrastructure to vaccinate everyone is there if only we have enough supplies of vaccines.
- oceanplexian 5y ago
  Half the worlds population lives on less than $5.50 per day. If you offered them 20 EUR they wouldn’t use it on a vaccine for a highly survivable disease (Compared to HIV, Malaria, and TB), they’d use it to buy food and water.

searealist 5y ago

mRNA vaccines have extreme cold storage requirements that make it very difficult to distribute to many places in the world.

unmole 5y ago
According to EU guidelunes, the Pfizer vaccine can be stored for a month at normal refridgerator temperature.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
It's not entirely impossible, I'm sure we would be fine with in in South Africa, and many African countries. Just need consistent power. But yes that is a hindrance.

enaaem 5y ago

It is not a matter of not willing to share, but a capacity problem. All production is fully bought up. Throwing more money at it won't increase the supply.

alsetmusic 5y ago
> It is not a matter of not willing to share, but a capacity problem. All production is fully bought up. Throwing more money at it won't increase the supply. This is why we should suspend IP / patent protection and increase production.
- prox 5y ago
  That has already happened I think, but creating a new pipeline is hard. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/06/covid-vaccines-what-is-patent-waiving-and-will-it-solve-the-global-shortage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/06/covid-vaccines...
- T-A 5y ago
  Suspending IP protection does nothing to increase production capacity.
- jlmorton 5y ago
  Moderna has said for over a year that anyone is free to use their IP. Intellectual property has precisely zero to do with production capacity.
  - amluto 5y ago
    There’s IP and then there’s IP. If Moderna published their complete protocols, cell lines, etc and allowed any qualified manufacturer to pay $5k/hr to consult with Moderna experts on how exactly to manufacture the vaccine, I wonder if there would be more supply.
maxerickson 5y ago
What is stopping us from linearly scaling mRNA vaccine production? If throwing money at it won't help, there should be specific answers to that question.

csomar 5y ago

It's not really about being rich but availability (at least at first). The vaccine costs between $3 and $20[1] which is accessible for most of the third-world and even in most countries in Africa. > so I’m not exactly full of hope for the future right now Don't be. The vaccine is being used as a political tool currently (Pfizer good, Sinovac bad, etc...) and to restrict/grant movement around countries. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belgian-minister-accidentally-tweets-eus-covid-vaccine-price-list https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belgian-minist...