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Back when this news hit (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9033881/Half-dose-Oxford-vaccine-NOT-mistake-known-people-got-jabs-scientists-say.html https:/

Back when this news hit (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9033881/Half-dose-Oxford-vaccine-NOT-mistake-known-people-got-jabs-scientists-say.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9033881/Half-dose-O...) I suspected that we might end up finding that ever smaller amounts of vaccine would be as effective as "full" doses. Obviously I didn't make any big public predictions of such since I'm a nobody but it's interesting to see it play out.

weaksauce 5y ago
to expand on this... while it is encouraging to see that there is a good immune system response to such a low level of the vaccine it's also true that in the real world for pfizer the two shot course is the only way to be really protected against the Delta variant. its use in places that don't have enough doses to go around would be huge though.
- msandford 5y ago
  Does anyone yet know why only the pfizer two shot course is effective against the delta variant yet? Slightly different spike analog, different delivery, you just need huge efficacy?
  - weaksauce 5y ago
    from reddit... > the 30µg of genetic material in the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine vs. closer to 100µg in Moderna's indicates to me that their RNA optimization was probably superior, and is likely part of the reason for the less severe side effects https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/kp1a00/moderna_vs_pfizer/ghug7mi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/kp1a00/moderna_vs... > Moderna probably used a higher dose than they needed to. This was discussed with the vaccine advisory committee. Apparently the dose they settled on for phase 3 trials was decided prior to having all the phase 2 data. They decided to error on the side of effectiveness when they picked the current dose. They basically admitted, if they knew then what they know now, they probably would have used a lower dose in phase 3. so basically 6 months ago they knew it was probably too much as to why the pfizer is effective against the delta it's probably just picking the right sequence that is slightly closer to the delta by chance.
    - M2Ys4U 5y ago
      >as to why the pfizer is effective against the delta it's probably just picking the right sequence that is slightly closer to the delta by chance. The encoded spike protein in Pfizer and Moderna is identical,[0] so it's probably not going to be that. It could be a difference in the mRNA encoding leading to better transcription by our cells, or something to do with the nanoparticles used to smuggle in the mRNA. [0] https://twitter.com/adamjmacneil/status/1407019597757390850 https://twitter.com/adamjmacneil/status/1407019597757390850
      - weaksauce 5y ago
        yeah it could be all of that and it could also be supply chain delivery/manufacturing techniques that cause the difference... who knows? I've worked with some generic drug manufacturers and some big name drug manufacturers and the clean room/processes are definitely different. it's above my paygrade as to why it is more effective though; that's for sure.
londons_explore 5y ago
It seems fairly likely to me that dividing the dose by 100 and giving it to 100 different individuals will have more benefit to the population than giving it to 1% of a population and leaving the other 99% unvaccinated. It's likely that had this strategy been done 6 months ago, a large number of dead people would be alive today. The only major downside is the population may come to believe the 'vaccine' is ineffective and not trust future vaccination efforts.
bpeebles 5y ago
The current phase 2/3 trials Pfizer is doing for children under 12 is using a 1/3rd dose for 5-11 year olds and 1/10th dose for 6 months to 4 year olds, based on an earlier phase 1 trial.

weaksauce 5y ago

to expand on this... while it is encouraging to see that there is a good immune system response to such a low level of the vaccine it's also true that in the real world for pfizer the two shot course is the only way to be really protected against the Delta variant. its use in places that don't have enough doses to go around would be huge though.

msandford 5y ago
Does anyone yet know why only the pfizer two shot course is effective against the delta variant yet? Slightly different spike analog, different delivery, you just need huge efficacy?
- weaksauce 5y ago
  from reddit... > the 30µg of genetic material in the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine vs. closer to 100µg in Moderna's indicates to me that their RNA optimization was probably superior, and is likely part of the reason for the less severe side effects https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/kp1a00/moderna_vs_pfizer/ghug7mi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/kp1a00/moderna_vs... > Moderna probably used a higher dose than they needed to. This was discussed with the vaccine advisory committee. Apparently the dose they settled on for phase 3 trials was decided prior to having all the phase 2 data. They decided to error on the side of effectiveness when they picked the current dose. They basically admitted, if they knew then what they know now, they probably would have used a lower dose in phase 3. so basically 6 months ago they knew it was probably too much as to why the pfizer is effective against the delta it's probably just picking the right sequence that is slightly closer to the delta by chance.
  - M2Ys4U 5y ago
    >as to why the pfizer is effective against the delta it's probably just picking the right sequence that is slightly closer to the delta by chance. The encoded spike protein in Pfizer and Moderna is identical,[0] so it's probably not going to be that. It could be a difference in the mRNA encoding leading to better transcription by our cells, or something to do with the nanoparticles used to smuggle in the mRNA. [0] https://twitter.com/adamjmacneil/status/1407019597757390850 https://twitter.com/adamjmacneil/status/1407019597757390850
    - weaksauce 5y ago
      yeah it could be all of that and it could also be supply chain delivery/manufacturing techniques that cause the difference... who knows? I've worked with some generic drug manufacturers and some big name drug manufacturers and the clean room/processes are definitely different. it's above my paygrade as to why it is more effective though; that's for sure.

londons_explore 5y ago

It seems fairly likely to me that dividing the dose by 100 and giving it to 100 different individuals will have more benefit to the population than giving it to 1% of a population and leaving the other 99% unvaccinated. It's likely that had this strategy been done 6 months ago, a large number of dead people would be alive today. The only major downside is the population may come to believe the 'vaccine' is ineffective and not trust future vaccination efforts.

bpeebles 5y ago

The current phase 2/3 trials Pfizer is doing for children under 12 is using a 1/3rd dose for 5-11 year olds and 1/10th dose for 6 months to 4 year olds, based on an earlier phase 1 trial.