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I actually find this technique used a lot on HN. They disagree with someone but they want to insult them without violating HN rules so they treat the person as

I actually find this technique used a lot on HN. They disagree with someone but they want to insult them without violating HN rules so they treat the person as if they're some kind of lab experiment and observing how they're behavior is so "strange" or "perplexing". The admins likely fail to see just how insulting these kinds of comments are. Perplexing is when someone jumps off a cliff while detonating a stick of dynamite. Someone with a differing opinion is NOT perplexing. "I find it so perplexing that someone would think that... despite that... " and so on. Really people should call it out. It's rude and manipulative.

inglor_cz 5y ago
Thank you for formulating precisely what I felt, but could not describe in detail. Calling someone else's opinion basically outside any rational Overton window is usually meant as a veiled insult.
- danielmarkbruce 5y ago
  It's possible they are actually perplexed. At least in my experience, there are a good number of people who can't hold in their head different perspectives on a topic. They just can't. The world is simple and black and white in their mind. And they aren't necessarily just plain old dumb, and they aren't uneducated. They just see black and white everywhere. That is perplexing.
  - shadowlight 5y ago
    The world is full of gradients but also binary (aka black & white) systems. Charge is binary, computers are binary, life and death are binary. Systems can be either binary or gradients if one person believes something is binary or discreet that's his opinion and it's not automatically wrong. This assumption that gradients are everywhere/ubiquitous/superior is not correct. No wait let me reframe what I said. How is it that someone can exist that can't comprehend the fact that many things in the universe aren't gradients and that they are in fact black and white? That is SO perplexing. It's baffling to me how someone can think like that and basically walk up to someone and examine them like some sort of sub human and announce that this other person is so perplexing because they don't think like them?? Like how come these people don't announce these things in public? They don't go to someones face and tell them that their opinions and behavior is so baffling? Why? Maybe it's because most people are aware that saying something like this is offensive. So they save it for HN where they can announce this garbage all the time without retribution from the other party. It's just so perplexing to me how you, daniel, are unable to comprehend this. You say these "black and white" people are everywhere. Do you walk up to them in real life and tell them how "perplexing" you think they are? No. You don't. But you probably do it all the time on HN. So baffling this behavior.... I mean your not necessarily just plain old dumb and you aren't uneducated... yet you still do this on HN and can't see that it's an insult on HN just like it is in real life. So baffling that a human exists that thinks like this. I am truly perplexed.
    - danielmarkbruce 5y ago
      "This assumption that gradients are everywhere/ubiquitous/superior is not correct." Not sure how you arrived at the idea this was an assumption. If you re-read my comment do you understand why it's not an assumption?
      - shadowlight 5y ago
        This conclusion was arrived at because you found it perplexing that someone had a binary opinion on a topic and refused to consider a gradient. Why would someone having a binary opinion on a topic be perplexing? Binary things exist. Thus it would only be perplexing if you felt that binary things didn't exist. That's the logic derived from reading your statements. Nothing is assumed here, it is a logical derivation. Of course, reality is far more nuanced than that. You are fully aware that binary things exist. You're not stupid. But than again neither is the person you're "perplexed" about. He's fully aware that gradients exist as well. Nobody is actually so stupid that they believe binary things don't exist nor is anyone really so stupid as to believe gradients don't exist. Such a belief is completely ludicrous. We ALL know this. There is nothing to be "perplexed" about here. The true nature of what's going on is that both of you only had a difference of opinion. But instead of discussing it in a civil way you decided to call anyone with a differing opinion than you "perplexing." Your opponent was OBVIOUSLY not someone who sees the world in black and white, just like you are OBVIOUSLY not someone who only sees the world in gradients. But it gets even more nuanced then that. I'm willing to bet you weren't even aware you were being insulting at the time.Let me make this more clear. You don't suffer from brain damage, so you're also 100% aware that calling someones behavior "perplexing" to their face is insulting. Whether it'd be on HN or in real life. You know this, you're aware of this yet at the very moment when you called someones behavior "perplexing" on HN you lost all awareness. The human mind is biased and contradictory. It lies to others and to itself to justify things such that certain actions can be taken at certain times. Your brain was too busy constructing a retort to use against an opponent that you never were able to see the hypocrisy within yourself. Would I call that perplexing? No. It's actually normal. Lots of people use the "perplexing" tactic on HN, and likely all of them have the same hypocritical blindness to the rudeness of such an action. It's not you who was biased it's always your opponent who sees everything as black and white. People are ironically biased towards always seeing other people as biased rather than themselves. In fact, the people who are the least biased aren't the people calling out others, the person who is the least biased is the person who is aware of their own biases. Well. Now you're aware. And hopefully you'll wise up and be less rude. Instead of asking me to re-read your content, why don't you re-read my content. The whole point of the example is to illustrate the hypocrisy and unreasonableness and rudeness of the "perplexing" tactic. Yeah, I'm fully aware you're not so stupid as to think the world is never black and white, the whole point was to illustrate how you're likely fully aware that your opponent isn't so stupid as to think the world can never be a gradient.
drran 5y ago
You speak like a woman. The main goal of a man is to win, so we play the social game where our goal is not to show that something is wrong, because it's impersonal, but to show that somebody is inferior in comparison to us, so we will deserve respect. (Non-native speaker)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Cipater 5y ago
  Is this a joke?
  - drran 5y ago
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/abs/testosterone-and-dominance-in-men/0CA56D56ED732CE24B67AC14E837E8D3 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain... In men, high levels of endogenous testosterone (T) seem to encourage behavior intended to dominate – to enhance one's status over – other people. Sometimes dominant behavior is aggressive, its apparent intent being to inflict harm on another person, but often dominance is expressed nonaggressively. Sometimes dominant behavior takes the form of antisocial behavior, including rebellion against authority and law breaking. Measurement of T at a single point in time, presumably indicative of a man's basal T level, predicts many of these dominant or antisocial behaviors. T not only affects behavior but also responds to it. The act of competing for dominant status affects male T levels in two ways. First, T rises in the face of a challenge, as if it were an anticipatory response to impending competition. Second, after the competition, T rises in winners and declines in losers.
    - shadowlight 5y ago
      Why isn't the person I responded to replying to what I wrote? Probably because he's been dominated. This post serves to win the game and lay out ammunition for others to use in the future. Every culture and conversational arena has rules that must be obeyed when playing the dominance game. By pointing out how someone is violating the spirit of HN etiquette I dominate the other party by elucidating how the other person isn't playing by the rules. I can link to this thread in the future for anyone who wants to call someone "perplexing" in the future. You should note that dominance games exist in both men and women. Everybody flexes sometimes but most people are never self aware about it. You should also know that relating gender to behavior even though it's scientifically valid is a cultural no no. Expect to lose the dominance game should you ever go this route as you'll be labelled as sexist or people will become incredulous. "Are you literally implying men and women can behave differently? That's preposterous!!" There's a subtle veiled insult here when you called me a woman. It's also a little off topic, but whatever. The obvious move would be to call you sexist as the rules of our modern culture say it's an easy win. I can also just be silent and you automatically lose as others vote you down. But you aren't technically wrong about the differences between male and female behavior. So I won't take that route because it's cheap. Either way you are completely off. I'm a dude. I'm a heterosexual male doing what heterosexual male humans typically do in the wild. I seek to dominate ass holes who call others perplexing. I dominate by being fucking completely right and not by using cheap conversational tactics. This entire post was the typical male testosterone fueled maneuver. I'm curious as to why you weren't able to see that? Maybe it's because you're female? Go read a psychology book on gender. Maybe that will help you understand the male mind better.

inglor_cz 5y ago

Thank you for formulating precisely what I felt, but could not describe in detail. Calling someone else's opinion basically outside any rational Overton window is usually meant as a veiled insult.

danielmarkbruce 5y ago
It's possible they are actually perplexed. At least in my experience, there are a good number of people who can't hold in their head different perspectives on a topic. They just can't. The world is simple and black and white in their mind. And they aren't necessarily just plain old dumb, and they aren't uneducated. They just see black and white everywhere. That is perplexing.
- shadowlight 5y ago
  The world is full of gradients but also binary (aka black & white) systems. Charge is binary, computers are binary, life and death are binary. Systems can be either binary or gradients if one person believes something is binary or discreet that's his opinion and it's not automatically wrong. This assumption that gradients are everywhere/ubiquitous/superior is not correct. No wait let me reframe what I said. How is it that someone can exist that can't comprehend the fact that many things in the universe aren't gradients and that they are in fact black and white? That is SO perplexing. It's baffling to me how someone can think like that and basically walk up to someone and examine them like some sort of sub human and announce that this other person is so perplexing because they don't think like them?? Like how come these people don't announce these things in public? They don't go to someones face and tell them that their opinions and behavior is so baffling? Why? Maybe it's because most people are aware that saying something like this is offensive. So they save it for HN where they can announce this garbage all the time without retribution from the other party. It's just so perplexing to me how you, daniel, are unable to comprehend this. You say these "black and white" people are everywhere. Do you walk up to them in real life and tell them how "perplexing" you think they are? No. You don't. But you probably do it all the time on HN. So baffling this behavior.... I mean your not necessarily just plain old dumb and you aren't uneducated... yet you still do this on HN and can't see that it's an insult on HN just like it is in real life. So baffling that a human exists that thinks like this. I am truly perplexed.
  - danielmarkbruce 5y ago
    "This assumption that gradients are everywhere/ubiquitous/superior is not correct." Not sure how you arrived at the idea this was an assumption. If you re-read my comment do you understand why it's not an assumption?
    - shadowlight 5y ago
      This conclusion was arrived at because you found it perplexing that someone had a binary opinion on a topic and refused to consider a gradient. Why would someone having a binary opinion on a topic be perplexing? Binary things exist. Thus it would only be perplexing if you felt that binary things didn't exist. That's the logic derived from reading your statements. Nothing is assumed here, it is a logical derivation. Of course, reality is far more nuanced than that. You are fully aware that binary things exist. You're not stupid. But than again neither is the person you're "perplexed" about. He's fully aware that gradients exist as well. Nobody is actually so stupid that they believe binary things don't exist nor is anyone really so stupid as to believe gradients don't exist. Such a belief is completely ludicrous. We ALL know this. There is nothing to be "perplexed" about here. The true nature of what's going on is that both of you only had a difference of opinion. But instead of discussing it in a civil way you decided to call anyone with a differing opinion than you "perplexing." Your opponent was OBVIOUSLY not someone who sees the world in black and white, just like you are OBVIOUSLY not someone who only sees the world in gradients. But it gets even more nuanced then that. I'm willing to bet you weren't even aware you were being insulting at the time.Let me make this more clear. You don't suffer from brain damage, so you're also 100% aware that calling someones behavior "perplexing" to their face is insulting. Whether it'd be on HN or in real life. You know this, you're aware of this yet at the very moment when you called someones behavior "perplexing" on HN you lost all awareness. The human mind is biased and contradictory. It lies to others and to itself to justify things such that certain actions can be taken at certain times. Your brain was too busy constructing a retort to use against an opponent that you never were able to see the hypocrisy within yourself. Would I call that perplexing? No. It's actually normal. Lots of people use the "perplexing" tactic on HN, and likely all of them have the same hypocritical blindness to the rudeness of such an action. It's not you who was biased it's always your opponent who sees everything as black and white. People are ironically biased towards always seeing other people as biased rather than themselves. In fact, the people who are the least biased aren't the people calling out others, the person who is the least biased is the person who is aware of their own biases. Well. Now you're aware. And hopefully you'll wise up and be less rude. Instead of asking me to re-read your content, why don't you re-read my content. The whole point of the example is to illustrate the hypocrisy and unreasonableness and rudeness of the "perplexing" tactic. Yeah, I'm fully aware you're not so stupid as to think the world is never black and white, the whole point was to illustrate how you're likely fully aware that your opponent isn't so stupid as to think the world can never be a gradient.

drran 5y ago

You speak like a woman. The main goal of a man is to win, so we play the social game where our goal is not to show that something is wrong, because it's impersonal, but to show that somebody is inferior in comparison to us, so we will deserve respect. (Non-native speaker)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Cipater 5y ago
Is this a joke?
- drran 5y ago
  https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/abs/testosterone-and-dominance-in-men/0CA56D56ED732CE24B67AC14E837E8D3 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain... In men, high levels of endogenous testosterone (T) seem to encourage behavior intended to dominate – to enhance one's status over – other people. Sometimes dominant behavior is aggressive, its apparent intent being to inflict harm on another person, but often dominance is expressed nonaggressively. Sometimes dominant behavior takes the form of antisocial behavior, including rebellion against authority and law breaking. Measurement of T at a single point in time, presumably indicative of a man's basal T level, predicts many of these dominant or antisocial behaviors. T not only affects behavior but also responds to it. The act of competing for dominant status affects male T levels in two ways. First, T rises in the face of a challenge, as if it were an anticipatory response to impending competition. Second, after the competition, T rises in winners and declines in losers.
  - shadowlight 5y ago
    Why isn't the person I responded to replying to what I wrote? Probably because he's been dominated. This post serves to win the game and lay out ammunition for others to use in the future. Every culture and conversational arena has rules that must be obeyed when playing the dominance game. By pointing out how someone is violating the spirit of HN etiquette I dominate the other party by elucidating how the other person isn't playing by the rules. I can link to this thread in the future for anyone who wants to call someone "perplexing" in the future. You should note that dominance games exist in both men and women. Everybody flexes sometimes but most people are never self aware about it. You should also know that relating gender to behavior even though it's scientifically valid is a cultural no no. Expect to lose the dominance game should you ever go this route as you'll be labelled as sexist or people will become incredulous. "Are you literally implying men and women can behave differently? That's preposterous!!" There's a subtle veiled insult here when you called me a woman. It's also a little off topic, but whatever. The obvious move would be to call you sexist as the rules of our modern culture say it's an easy win. I can also just be silent and you automatically lose as others vote you down. But you aren't technically wrong about the differences between male and female behavior. So I won't take that route because it's cheap. Either way you are completely off. I'm a dude. I'm a heterosexual male doing what heterosexual male humans typically do in the wild. I seek to dominate ass holes who call others perplexing. I dominate by being fucking completely right and not by using cheap conversational tactics. This entire post was the typical male testosterone fueled maneuver. I'm curious as to why you weren't able to see that? Maybe it's because you're female? Go read a psychology book on gender. Maybe that will help you understand the male mind better.