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You seem overly attached to the label of being an introvert. The whole post is slightly confusing to me in fact. If you've concluded that other things than inc

You seem overly attached to the label of being an introvert. The whole post is slightly confusing to me in fact. If you've concluded that other things than increasing social skills are more worthwhile pursuits for you in your life, then that's great. You do you. However, you can't then also complain in the next breath about what your lack of social skills, that you won't spend an effort acquiring, exclude you from. "Still, many of us live in our ways because we've followed our feelings and sensations." is slightly problematic in my view. The hardest things to change are the one that conflicts with feelings. It doesn't feel good to start exercising it you are overweight for example. Socializing with low social skills and confidence doesn't feel good either. I'd argue that both are worthwhile efforts, even though we need to combat our feelings and fears in order to do it. Again, if you're totally happy right now that's awesome! Just don't let "I'm an introvert" be your "I'm big-boned" type of excuse for not changing anything if something could be improved by change.

jasode 5y ago
>You seem overly attached to the label of being an introvert. I didn't downvote your comments but as counterpoint, I think you and tboyd47 are too influenced by the idea that "introvert" is merely a label. Yes, I understand the good intentions for stressing the "label isn't destiny!" -- because we always want people to improve. That said, I'm an introvert because that's currently the best description of my stable traits. If you didn't know me, I would not look like an introvert to you because: - I'm not shy. - I don't have poor social skills. - I'm not uncomfortable around people and do enjoy parties. - I've given presentations to large audiences in Las Vegas ... however, I've always had an underlying preference for solitary activities over group gatherings. I've had this preference for as a long as I can remember even as a little boy. Even the later adult years of consulting work where I went out for drinks and dinner every night with buddies does not change that. I actually noticed the pattern of solitary pursuits in my life first -- and then I later found the word "introvert" that matched it. It's like being "right-handed" or "left-handed". I'm right-hand dominant and it's a stable trait that doesn't change even if I learn to type 'Q' and 'Z' a million times with my left hand on a QWERTY keyboard. The label "right-handed" didn't make me right-handed. And learning new skills with my left hand will improve my life but will still not change my internal right-handedness. Going to more social parties does not train me to be less introverted. Instead, it actually reveals to me how introverted I truly am. Yes, I can laugh and make small talk with everyone -- but it doesn't change the underlying feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else. If the word "introvert" is useless because some people think it's a changeable trait... then I don't know what alternative word to use to describe that unchanging stable preference that I've had all my life.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  This is very familiar to me. I can work a room but when that's done I want to be gone.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  Right, I agree with what you say. And in a number of ways, my introverted trait is for similar reasons to yours (I too have no difficulty lecturing to a large hall full of people, etc.), but what's actually relevant in this context is the reason I've mentioned in a somewhat earlier post, specifically: "<...> Of course, what's relevant to this story and these comments are the reasons behind the motivation for why some people are introverted and or why they act this way—as critically it determines whether a person considers said trait to be either distressing and unwanted or desirable and necessary—or perhaps even essential:"
erikerikson 5y ago
I am not terribly attached to the term introvert but it seems the best available term that communicates a dynamic I experience. Maybe lean into that confusion? Certainly, we would agree that to socialize one needs to try doing it and grow. Sometimes there will be failures and consequences. I've done the work to acquire my social skills and would hazard a speculation that I might have more sophisticated social skills than many. Having to learn a skill to use it is not the thing I am objecting to. That is unless by "skills" you mean willingness to meaninglessly spend my time and resources practicing the skill. To be more concrete, a normality in business is checking in with people about their children and other important aspects of their lives. I actually like that but find it annoying that very few people actually want to dig in to any depth and talk about the flows of their emotional journeys, their core intellectual advanced, the things that they've learned, or instructive errors that they've made so that we gain wisdom from the conversation. They're responding to incentives because having broad social capital has in many scopes become a gating function to prosperity. It is such that those who enjoy socializing voluminously have quite a bit of advantage. I would much rather build and create tools that solve problems, or use my socializing to really clearly identify the cores of problems so that they can be better solved. I completely appreciate the value of socialization and collaboration. It is simply that those who really enjoy socializing in and for itself will dilute conversations to make them less valuable and have created a norm of this that seems to me to carry a lot of opportunity cost. We completely agree that sometimes we must experience and accept pain and struggle. There's a big difference between feeling our efforts and being self displacing. Consider an engineer who gets positions because they are well connected and another who is an effective teammate and simply amazing at their job. Which one do you want to hire? You're more likely to hire the first. What if they're in the same team and the latter did most of the work? Often it's the former that gets the recognition.
- jlokier 5y ago
  > I actually like that but find it annoying that very few people actually want to dig in to any depth and talk about the flows of their emotional journeys, their core intellectual advanced, the things that they've learned, or instructive errors that they've made so that we gain wisdom from the conversation. I'd enjoy doing that with people I work with, but I don't think they'd appreciate me asking. Perhaps as a result I come off as one of those people that doesn't want to dig in to any depth about the kinds of life aspects you listed. But I'm optimising for getting along at work without coming across as intrusive and probing. I don't want to make people uncomfortable by showing too much interest in their personal lives and excitements, if they aren't volunteering it. There are definitely people who want their work life to remain very separate from the rest of their life. If I'm doing that, willing to engage in deep conversations about wider aspects of life but optimising to not be intrusive at work, perhaps some of the other people in your work circle are also doing so.

jasode 5y ago

>You seem overly attached to the label of being an introvert. I didn't downvote your comments but as counterpoint, I think you and tboyd47 are too influenced by the idea that "introvert" is merely a label. Yes, I understand the good intentions for stressing the "label isn't destiny!" -- because we always want people to improve. That said, I'm an introvert because that's currently the best description of my stable traits. If you didn't know me, I would not look like an introvert to you because: - I'm not shy. - I don't have poor social skills. - I'm not uncomfortable around people and do enjoy parties. - I've given presentations to large audiences in Las Vegas ... however, I've always had an underlying preference for solitary activities over group gatherings. I've had this preference for as a long as I can remember even as a little boy. Even the later adult years of consulting work where I went out for drinks and dinner every night with buddies does not change that. I actually noticed the pattern of solitary pursuits in my life first -- and then I later found the word "introvert" that matched it. It's like being "right-handed" or "left-handed". I'm right-hand dominant and it's a stable trait that doesn't change even if I learn to type 'Q' and 'Z' a million times with my left hand on a QWERTY keyboard. The label "right-handed" didn't make me right-handed. And learning new skills with my left hand will improve my life but will still not change my internal right-handedness. Going to more social parties does not train me to be less introverted. Instead, it actually reveals to me how introverted I truly am. Yes, I can laugh and make small talk with everyone -- but it doesn't change the underlying feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else. If the word "introvert" is useless because some people think it's a changeable trait... then I don't know what alternative word to use to describe that unchanging stable preference that I've had all my life.

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
This is very familiar to me. I can work a room but when that's done I want to be gone.
hilbert42 5y ago
Right, I agree with what you say. And in a number of ways, my introverted trait is for similar reasons to yours (I too have no difficulty lecturing to a large hall full of people, etc.), but what's actually relevant in this context is the reason I've mentioned in a somewhat earlier post, specifically: "<...> Of course, what's relevant to this story and these comments are the reasons behind the motivation for why some people are introverted and or why they act this way—as critically it determines whether a person considers said trait to be either distressing and unwanted or desirable and necessary—or perhaps even essential:"

erikerikson 5y ago

I am not terribly attached to the term introvert but it seems the best available term that communicates a dynamic I experience. Maybe lean into that confusion? Certainly, we would agree that to socialize one needs to try doing it and grow. Sometimes there will be failures and consequences. I've done the work to acquire my social skills and would hazard a speculation that I might have more sophisticated social skills than many. Having to learn a skill to use it is not the thing I am objecting to. That is unless by "skills" you mean willingness to meaninglessly spend my time and resources practicing the skill. To be more concrete, a normality in business is checking in with people about their children and other important aspects of their lives. I actually like that but find it annoying that very few people actually want to dig in to any depth and talk about the flows of their emotional journeys, their core intellectual advanced, the things that they've learned, or instructive errors that they've made so that we gain wisdom from the conversation. They're responding to incentives because having broad social capital has in many scopes become a gating function to prosperity. It is such that those who enjoy socializing voluminously have quite a bit of advantage. I would much rather build and create tools that solve problems, or use my socializing to really clearly identify the cores of problems so that they can be better solved. I completely appreciate the value of socialization and collaboration. It is simply that those who really enjoy socializing in and for itself will dilute conversations to make them less valuable and have created a norm of this that seems to me to carry a lot of opportunity cost. We completely agree that sometimes we must experience and accept pain and struggle. There's a big difference between feeling our efforts and being self displacing. Consider an engineer who gets positions because they are well connected and another who is an effective teammate and simply amazing at their job. Which one do you want to hire? You're more likely to hire the first. What if they're in the same team and the latter did most of the work? Often it's the former that gets the recognition.

jlokier 5y ago
> I actually like that but find it annoying that very few people actually want to dig in to any depth and talk about the flows of their emotional journeys, their core intellectual advanced, the things that they've learned, or instructive errors that they've made so that we gain wisdom from the conversation. I'd enjoy doing that with people I work with, but I don't think they'd appreciate me asking. Perhaps as a result I come off as one of those people that doesn't want to dig in to any depth about the kinds of life aspects you listed. But I'm optimising for getting along at work without coming across as intrusive and probing. I don't want to make people uncomfortable by showing too much interest in their personal lives and excitements, if they aren't volunteering it. There are definitely people who want their work life to remain very separate from the rest of their life. If I'm doing that, willing to engage in deep conversations about wider aspects of life but optimising to not be intrusive at work, perhaps some of the other people in your work circle are also doing so.