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> A language shapes your identity because it literally gives the grammar to your thoughts. So what happens when you learn a second, or third, or fourth langua

> A language shapes your identity because it literally gives the grammar to your thoughts. So what happens when you learn a second, or third, or fourth language fluently? [Like, say me?] Do you suddenly have multiple-personalities? Complete bollocks.

Aerroon 5y ago
Knowing four languages isn't the same as thinking in them. It took me quite a while after becoming fluent in English to having errant thoughts in English. Both languages can influence my thinking - sometimes I'll think of half of a concept in English and finish off the thought in my native language. This is most common when I'm dealing with math or numbers.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > A language shapes your identity because it literally gives the grammar to your thoughts. So does your 'identity' (whatever that is) change half way through the sentence. In you head? Are you literally a different person at either end of your sentence? SMH.
  - Aerroon 5y ago
    What? No. The change happens when you learn the language and start thinking in those concepts. It's like learning mathematics or programming: once you learn them, you notice the patterns elsewhere in life too. I don't think the difference in natural languages is as big as with learning programming or mathematics, but I imagine that there's some difference.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
truth_ 5y ago
No, not complete bollocks. Learning new languages does add different layers to your personality. I am native-level fluent in three languages, and have some level of fluency in three more. Learning a new language opens a complete new door to a new culture, and way of thoughts through books, movies, songs, and so much more. Even if you don't spend time to learn a culture well, i.e. don't listen to music or read literature, learning a new grammar, and very importantly, new words, do reshape you, and gives you new perspectives and ways of thoughts.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  I too speak three(four) language at absolute native level and three (two) at conversational level. And one at a beginner level. Some of these a polysynthetic languages, others are agglutinative. Two are tonal, and one doesn't have an alphabet. No here is the thing: none of this has affected my identify at all, not even in the slightest. Same person: just different sounds for things. Presumably my testimony counts as well.
acituan 5y ago
> Complete bollocks. Thanks for your sophisticated analysis.[1] Psycho-activeness of language has an incredible depth of account from philosophy to semiotics. But a simple enough paper I found for you that exemplifies (not exhaustively proves) my claim is Holtgraves & Kashima, 2008. It is freely accessible. Additionally equivocating personality, identity and pathologies like dissociative personality is going to mislead us, because they are strawman arguments. Think of yourself growing up. Turning to an adult was a change in identity. Do you remember the day you switched from being a child to being an adult? Was it a psychopathology to become an adult? Are you completely dissociated from childhood memories, and seemingly, your childhood ego-states? Finally I will pull another comment of yours in this thread; > No here is the thing: none of this has affected my identify at all, not even in the slightest. The thing with identity is that it is not entirely transparent to us. You don't know who you are as much as you think you do. Not only that, if language is the ground on which our identities form, by definition you wouldn't realize a change in identity due to change in grounding. By these accounts you wouldn't be the most reliable witness to assess your identity change. [1] I know sarcasm is frowned up in this forum but I wanted to give an example of how we use language to emotionally regulate ourselves. We can sublimate our anger by creating a contradictory perspective to salience the unfairness of the opposing perspective. It gives us a strategy out of merely attacking back in kind. Collect thousands of tools like this together and you bet it significantly contributes to your identity.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > by definition you wouldn't realize a change in identity due to change in grounding. Neither then would anyone else, including the OP.
  - acituan 5y ago
    I mean we are digging a tangential hypothetical but still that’s not true. The other people are not changing, the grounding through which they are perceiving you is not changing. Whereas due to the recursive nature of self-reflection, your own change of the way through which you observe change itself is liable to be in your blind spot. This is how self deception works.

Aerroon 5y ago

Knowing four languages isn't the same as thinking in them. It took me quite a while after becoming fluent in English to having errant thoughts in English. Both languages can influence my thinking - sometimes I'll think of half of a concept in English and finish off the thought in my native language. This is most common when I'm dealing with math or numbers.

throwaway210222 5y ago
> A language shapes your identity because it literally gives the grammar to your thoughts. So does your 'identity' (whatever that is) change half way through the sentence. In you head? Are you literally a different person at either end of your sentence? SMH.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  What? No. The change happens when you learn the language and start thinking in those concepts. It's like learning mathematics or programming: once you learn them, you notice the patterns elsewhere in life too. I don't think the difference in natural languages is as big as with learning programming or mathematics, but I imagine that there's some difference.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

truth_ 5y ago

No, not complete bollocks. Learning new languages does add different layers to your personality. I am native-level fluent in three languages, and have some level of fluency in three more. Learning a new language opens a complete new door to a new culture, and way of thoughts through books, movies, songs, and so much more. Even if you don't spend time to learn a culture well, i.e. don't listen to music or read literature, learning a new grammar, and very importantly, new words, do reshape you, and gives you new perspectives and ways of thoughts.

throwaway210222 5y ago
I too speak three(four) language at absolute native level and three (two) at conversational level. And one at a beginner level. Some of these a polysynthetic languages, others are agglutinative. Two are tonal, and one doesn't have an alphabet. No here is the thing: none of this has affected my identify at all, not even in the slightest. Same person: just different sounds for things. Presumably my testimony counts as well.

acituan 5y ago

> Complete bollocks. Thanks for your sophisticated analysis.[1] Psycho-activeness of language has an incredible depth of account from philosophy to semiotics. But a simple enough paper I found for you that exemplifies (not exhaustively proves) my claim is Holtgraves & Kashima, 2008. It is freely accessible. Additionally equivocating personality, identity and pathologies like dissociative personality is going to mislead us, because they are strawman arguments. Think of yourself growing up. Turning to an adult was a change in identity. Do you remember the day you switched from being a child to being an adult? Was it a psychopathology to become an adult? Are you completely dissociated from childhood memories, and seemingly, your childhood ego-states? Finally I will pull another comment of yours in this thread; > No here is the thing: none of this has affected my identify at all, not even in the slightest. The thing with identity is that it is not entirely transparent to us. You don't know who you are as much as you think you do. Not only that, if language is the ground on which our identities form, by definition you wouldn't realize a change in identity due to change in grounding. By these accounts you wouldn't be the most reliable witness to assess your identity change. [1] I know sarcasm is frowned up in this forum but I wanted to give an example of how we use language to emotionally regulate ourselves. We can sublimate our anger by creating a contradictory perspective to salience the unfairness of the opposing perspective. It gives us a strategy out of merely attacking back in kind. Collect thousands of tools like this together and you bet it significantly contributes to your identity.

throwaway210222 5y ago
> by definition you wouldn't realize a change in identity due to change in grounding. Neither then would anyone else, including the OP.
- acituan 5y ago
  I mean we are digging a tangential hypothetical but still that’s not true. The other people are not changing, the grounding through which they are perceiving you is not changing. Whereas due to the recursive nature of self-reflection, your own change of the way through which you observe change itself is liable to be in your blind spot. This is how self deception works.