3 ms·

Animals won't have rights until we can objectively prove that they are conscious and sentient just as we are. Probably 20 years or so.

by maeon3 15y ago

rms 15y ago
Just in time for lab grown meat!
pavel_lishin 15y ago
At which point does a critter stop being sentient? I could easily accept a proof (that I couldn't understand or verify without years of study) claiming that a chimpanzee is sentient; I doubt I could be convinced that a mouse is sentient; and the yeast on top of my fridge is certainly not sentient, unless it mutates into some sort of collective.
- novumordo 15y ago
  >I doubt I could be convinced that a mouse is sentient Having met plenty of humans and plenty of mice, there are definitely members of the former who are less sentient than members of the latter. I'm not sure what you are trying to say exactly, but we should not be judging the sentience of creatures by the degree of ignorance we have. How would you react to a proof that the yeast on top of your fridge is indeed sentient?
  - pavel_lishin 15y ago
    > we should not be judging the sentience of creatures by the degree of ignorance we have. Considering that we're usually unaware of our degree of ignorance about nearly everything, this evaluates to "we should not be judging anything since we may be ignorant about it". Which is obviously bullshit, because it would just put us in a deadlock about any decision. And I'd probably be fairly shocked, and then I'd hope that I didn't do anything to piss it off, or to infringe on any rights I would presume it to have - which I would assume to be the same ones that I have.
michaeldhopkins 15y ago
Really? I heard it was 35.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
hobb0001 15y ago
I'm not sure that it will take 20 years to prove that we're only as sentient as the other animals.
yaix 15y ago
Animals do have rights, just not all a human has. Many animals are proven to be both sentient and conscious (self-aware). They are just not very bright compared to many humans.

Animals won't have rights until we can objectively prove that they are conscious and sentient just as we are. Probably 20 years or so.

by maeon3 15y ago

Animals won't have rights until we can objectively prove that they are conscious and sentient just as we are. Probably 20 years or so.

rms 15y ago

Just in time for lab grown meat!

pavel_lishin 15y ago

At which point does a critter stop being sentient? I could easily accept a proof (that I couldn't understand or verify without years of study) claiming that a chimpanzee is sentient; I doubt I could be convinced that a mouse is sentient; and the yeast on top of my fridge is certainly not sentient, unless it mutates into some sort of collective.

novumordo 15y ago
>I doubt I could be convinced that a mouse is sentient Having met plenty of humans and plenty of mice, there are definitely members of the former who are less sentient than members of the latter. I'm not sure what you are trying to say exactly, but we should not be judging the sentience of creatures by the degree of ignorance we have. How would you react to a proof that the yeast on top of your fridge is indeed sentient?
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  > we should not be judging the sentience of creatures by the degree of ignorance we have. Considering that we're usually unaware of our degree of ignorance about nearly everything, this evaluates to "we should not be judging anything since we may be ignorant about it". Which is obviously bullshit, because it would just put us in a deadlock about any decision. And I'd probably be fairly shocked, and then I'd hope that I didn't do anything to piss it off, or to infringe on any rights I would presume it to have - which I would assume to be the same ones that I have.

michaeldhopkins 15y ago

Really? I heard it was 35.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

hobb0001 15y ago

I'm not sure that it will take 20 years to prove that we're only as sentient as the other animals.

yaix 15y ago

Animals do have rights, just not all a human has. Many animals are proven to be both sentient and conscious (self-aware). They are just not very bright compared to many humans.