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I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a YouTube Warzone stream lament that the game didn't have an anti-cheat system on the end users machine. I d

I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a YouTube Warzone stream lament that the game didn't have an anti-cheat system on the end users machine. I do wonder about the claim that it is undetectable though since a machine will be flawless where as even the best human players make mistakes.

detaro 5y ago
a good cheat will make mistakes if thats needed to look like a good human.
philliphaydon 5y ago
I stopped playing war zone due to the amount of cheaters. Most of the streamers cheat too and it’s sad. It can be a lot of fun to play but it’s like counter strike back in the day when it got over run by cheaters until valve started auto detecting them. There’s videos of a popular streamer called symphony or something where he’s shooting people through walls or sniping people when zoomed in that aren’t even visible. Then jokes “oh someone will call me a cheater”
denimnerd42 5y ago
I think it's currently impossible to detect. I think it would be possible to detect if you used some kind of player profile where you characterized how a player moved and then were able to determine through a replay whether the profiles matched. However then you could program the cheat AI to mimic the real player etc, etc. But this would take several evolutions where each tech would be ahead of the other.
- kilburn 5y ago
  I think you are spot on: statistical player profiling + controlled environment testing is the good and potentially permanent solution to this problem. In my vision every game creates a model of your behavior/capabilities (server-side). For example, in a fps game it could consider your reaction times, overshoot distance on quick movements, look-around frequency, movement patterns, etc.. When you reach certain level you must certify yourself. That is, you must go to an actual physical location and play in a controlled environment. If your behavior there matches your model you get certified for that level of play and can keep going. If you don't... you get banned. Of course the model would track your progress and ask/force you to re-certify as you keep improving/reach the limits of your current certification. Would this eliminate all cheats? Probably not. However, since you can't play outside of the standard deviation of your controlled-environment capabilities, I would argue that it doesn't matter anymore. To a honest player a cheater would look like "a player having a good day" (which is something that happens and you need to deal with anyway) instead of looking like "a player with superhuman capabilities". The problem with this approach is how to build such controlled-environment certification centers and procedures. This is a big task, but also a big opportunity. It is not that much different from examination centers that already exist in the learning/certification industry. Furthermore, since gaming is such a huge market (and growing) and certification centers don't need to be tied to specific games (they can be a service that games hire and people pay for) the whole ordeal seems doable. So doable in fact that I could see myself investing in a startup having this goal.
  - toxik 5y ago
    And then I open my verification center where subtle cheating is okay.
    - kilburn 5y ago
      I don't see it. To be in this business you need the companies making games to trust you. Otherwise your certifications are worth nothing. Would you really risk your reputation (and hence your entire business) for peanuts? If you systematically certify people above their level or advertise in any way that you do you will get caught. If you don't you won't profit much from it, and will always be at risk. I just don't see how this would be a significant issue.
  - jon-wood 5y ago
    If there’s one thing that would make me even less likely to play multiplayer it would be a requirement to travel to a (potentially distant) location in order to take an exam before being allowed to progress.
    - b0rsuk 5y ago
      We already have sports and board games for that.
sudosysgen 5y ago
Cheat creators already began inserting flaws and mistakes in their cheats since VACnet.

detaro 5y ago

a good cheat will make mistakes if thats needed to look like a good human.

philliphaydon 5y ago

I stopped playing war zone due to the amount of cheaters. Most of the streamers cheat too and it’s sad. It can be a lot of fun to play but it’s like counter strike back in the day when it got over run by cheaters until valve started auto detecting them. There’s videos of a popular streamer called symphony or something where he’s shooting people through walls or sniping people when zoomed in that aren’t even visible. Then jokes “oh someone will call me a cheater”

denimnerd42 5y ago

I think it's currently impossible to detect. I think it would be possible to detect if you used some kind of player profile where you characterized how a player moved and then were able to determine through a replay whether the profiles matched. However then you could program the cheat AI to mimic the real player etc, etc. But this would take several evolutions where each tech would be ahead of the other.

kilburn 5y ago
I think you are spot on: statistical player profiling + controlled environment testing is the good and potentially permanent solution to this problem. In my vision every game creates a model of your behavior/capabilities (server-side). For example, in a fps game it could consider your reaction times, overshoot distance on quick movements, look-around frequency, movement patterns, etc.. When you reach certain level you must certify yourself. That is, you must go to an actual physical location and play in a controlled environment. If your behavior there matches your model you get certified for that level of play and can keep going. If you don't... you get banned. Of course the model would track your progress and ask/force you to re-certify as you keep improving/reach the limits of your current certification. Would this eliminate all cheats? Probably not. However, since you can't play outside of the standard deviation of your controlled-environment capabilities, I would argue that it doesn't matter anymore. To a honest player a cheater would look like "a player having a good day" (which is something that happens and you need to deal with anyway) instead of looking like "a player with superhuman capabilities". The problem with this approach is how to build such controlled-environment certification centers and procedures. This is a big task, but also a big opportunity. It is not that much different from examination centers that already exist in the learning/certification industry. Furthermore, since gaming is such a huge market (and growing) and certification centers don't need to be tied to specific games (they can be a service that games hire and people pay for) the whole ordeal seems doable. So doable in fact that I could see myself investing in a startup having this goal.
- toxik 5y ago
  And then I open my verification center where subtle cheating is okay.
  - kilburn 5y ago
    I don't see it. To be in this business you need the companies making games to trust you. Otherwise your certifications are worth nothing. Would you really risk your reputation (and hence your entire business) for peanuts? If you systematically certify people above their level or advertise in any way that you do you will get caught. If you don't you won't profit much from it, and will always be at risk. I just don't see how this would be a significant issue.
- jon-wood 5y ago
  If there’s one thing that would make me even less likely to play multiplayer it would be a requirement to travel to a (potentially distant) location in order to take an exam before being allowed to progress.
  - b0rsuk 5y ago
    We already have sports and board games for that.

sudosysgen 5y ago

Cheat creators already began inserting flaws and mistakes in their cheats since VACnet.