6 ms·

I can't tell if bookstores have gotten markedly worse or if I've simply become more discriminating in what I'm looking for. When Barnes and Noble, Borders, et

by wheels 15y ago

I can't tell if bookstores have gotten markedly worse or if I've simply become more discriminating in what I'm looking for. When Barnes and Noble, Borders, et al first swept through the US I thought it was wonderful. I've spent an inordinate amount of money and time in big-box bookstores. I moved to Germany some 9 years ago. In my first trips back to the US a bookstore was one of the detours I was most excited about. I'd typically return to Germany with a couple hundred bucks worth of books stuffed into my bag. My family, noticing this, started a habit of buying me B&N gift certificates (a pattern that's continued to this day). But now, 9 years and thousands of dollars of Amazon.de purchases later, I can't say that I'm terribly excited about visiting the big box stores. I struggled to spend my most recent gift certificate. Struggled! I went looking for books on Chinese history, and in a two story Barnes and Noble in an upscale Houston neighborhood there were two books on the history of the most populous country in the world. There were huge aisles of random throwaway junk, games and other silliness and two books on Chinese history. Nor did they have Bertrand Russel's Principles of Mathematics or Aldous Huxley's Chrome Yellow. I love books. Paper books. I have around a thousand of them. But I won't cry for the passing of the big-box stores if they're bent on becoming the Wal-Mart of reading.

panacea 15y ago
>But I won't cry for the passing of the big-box stores if they're bent on becoming the Wal-Mart of reading. There's likely some bad decision making behind a move towards a 'Wal-Mart-ification' of the big-box stores, but are you sure they could have survived if they tried to compete with the advantages of a warehouse full of diverse stock and shelf space that is virtual and costs nothing to expand by adding pages (ala Amazon). It seems to me that they've acted more like fish in a pond that's been drying up. Struggling to stay in a deep enough spot to keep breathing. I get a better price, better selection and more information browsing Amazon, but I'm not about to blame the physical book stores for going out of business because they changed, man. Related: http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2011/07/12/the-secret-bookstore/ http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2011/07/12/the-secret-boo...
cafard 15y ago
They've gotten worse. Borders was a revelation when it showed up on Rockville Pike outside Washington. I was delighted when it came to downtown at 18th & L NW. But during the last several years I could see (for example) the poetry shelves squeezing down from most of two free-standing chest-height shelves to part of one; the history section much compressed; the computing shelves progressively thinner and less organized.
- jcurbo 15y ago
  I've only lived in the DC area for 6 mo. or so, but I've been to the Borders in Silver Spring, North Bethesda, Bethesda, and downtown and thought they were horrible, at least on price and probably on selection too. The B&N near Metro Center, on the other hand, had a much better selection when I went there for the first time last weekend. I found at least 4 books I wanted - however, I buy everything from Amazon (lower prices, or used books) and put them all on my wish list there.
  - trotsky 15y ago
    It's been almost six months since borders filed for bankruptcy, and they were having cash flow problems before that. Many suppliers have been insisting on cash terms, which must have put a serious dent in their stocks. I was at a borders last week looking for a brand new Stross hardcover that I was willing to pay full price for but they didn't have it. An employee said they wouldn't be getting it, yet they definitely would have in years past.
  - lallysingh 15y ago
    I remember the Borders in Springfield VA having grad-level CS textbooks. Now it's just heartbreakingly depressing.
Lost_BiomedE 15y ago
Many stores have become worse in the exact same way, but the bookstores have been bitten by it sooner than some others. Stores started, even before the economic downturn, to not carry items that are niche or infrequently needed. Sure, many of the items that are still there were bought most, or brought better margin, but the reason people went there without question was because the niche items were there, too. Electronic stores are another example of the same thing, and IMO, have been hurt because of it. There are a lot of short-term gains for long-term losses. I think consumers warmed to buying on the internet because the local stores failed them. They were willing to pay the premium and were scared of and disliked online transactions. Now, the cat is out of the bag. Some of this was due to commercial real estate prices shooting up but a good amount was their own doing. Have you noticed that many brands, in many different markets, that had the biggest following 10 to 15 years ago are some of the worst now? They rid the brand to death for short-term gains. Now, I take a good look at the less-known brands before ever thinking of going with the big traditional names.
makmanalp 15y ago
I'll bring in another perspective. I'm in a huge dilemma. I love books. I also like paper books, but I believe that in the long run we're better off without them for economic and environmental reasons, and e-books are a pretty darned good alternative. I think that the inherent value of a book is its contents. Whether it is tangible or not doesn't matter as much. Because of this, I think book romanticism is pretty stupid. However, I can't help but feel captivated by it. I have a few theories on why this may be so: I do like that my books are tangible possessions, that I can look back at the notes my father made into them in college, that I can find an old train pass I used as a bookmark that brings back memories. Or I know that that mark is from when I spilled coffee all over my theory of computation book when I fell asleep studying for the final. I associate my books with other things, thoughts. Currently this doesn't quite work this way with e-books. That's why they don't feel "personal". This can be remedied, but I don't know to what extent. I don't give a damn about big box stores, but I care very much about my local stores. The difference is in experience. When I'm buying a book, I don't want to feel like I'm a standardized entity there to benefit a company whose sole purpose is to maximize profits. The alternative to this what I can only describe as "intellectual flirtation". Example: Today I happened to have some free time and I wandered into my favorite bookstore. I looked around, grabbed a book about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and sat in a corner reading for an hour. No one nagged me to buy anything. The book was well written but it wasn't as comprehensive as I hoped, so I moved to the fiction section, and onto mathematics, dipping into books as I wished. Finally, I found a book about the role of Tea in Japanese culture and decided to buy it. While I was paying, the cashier struck up a conversation with me about the book itself and we had a small debate about the topic and he also recommended another author to me. Now, as you can see the act of going to a bookstore is not a thing I do just to buy books. I do it so I can have a change of scenery and pace, relax, learn and have some personal time to just think (when do we do that, seriously?). I also do it because it's profoundly social (i.e. not web 2.0 style "me too" social). I like conversing about the things I find interesting, and it seems bookstores gather people like me, whether they work there or just visit to buy. Finally, the cost of all this is a possible few extra dollars on my book. It's a tough choice for me.
- lhnn 15y ago
  Romanticism is just that: a love for something because of what you believe it to be about: every nuance that makes an experience or thing what it is. Thus, romanticism is quite opinionated. To call it 'stupid' is a little harsh, but I won't rip you up about it like I wanted to (as someone who likes books). To say books are an environmental detriment is incorrect; wood (paper) is one of the most renewable of resources, and when harvested responsibly (as is done in the US on the whole), it actually creates a net of more trees planted than would otherwise exist in our modern society. Arguably, the plastics and battery chemicals of ebook readers is more damaging to our planet. Not that I think it's a particular concern. To your last three paragraphs, I agree.
jerhewet 15y ago
It's not the stores as much as it's the publishers and editors. The good editors are long retired, and what's left are the MBA's that are creaming their jeans to find the next hot vampire / zombie / weresomething romance trend. The current crop of publishers and editors are operating without the vaguest hint of a clue. We're in a slump, but I'm not sure when (or even if) we're going to see any kind of recovery. I'm pretty sure I know how to solve the problem, but nobody would like the answer.
- yolesaber 15y ago
  I would like to hear the answer.
fpgeek 15y ago
I suspect bookstores are about the same (at least Borders & B&N haven't seemed terribly different to me than they were in the 90s). The difference is that alternative ways of buying books (Amazon, ebooks, etc.) have gotten much, much better, so bookstores look much worse in comparison.
patrickgzill 15y ago
* Crome Yellow (no "h") The issue IMHO is that: 1) their buyers, who are the people that decide what each store stocks, deteriorated from "people who knew books" to "people who knew inventory control" ; as a result, the bookstore selection has gotten markedly worse as you have noticed. 2) they have suffered from a lack of seriousness in approaching what a good bokstore should be. Instead of being true to themselves and having an excellent book selection, they add "features" like a coffee shop, games, paper and pens, etc. all of which dilutes their original purpose.
JulianMorrison 15y ago
The Wal-Mart model is what you get when profit margins are collapsing towards zero. There isn't the surplus sloshing around to support more than a few big players in the market, skilled staff, or worthy but unpopular products.

by wheels 15y ago

panacea 15y ago

>But I won't cry for the passing of the big-box stores if they're bent on becoming the Wal-Mart of reading. There's likely some bad decision making behind a move towards a 'Wal-Mart-ification' of the big-box stores, but are you sure they could have survived if they tried to compete with the advantages of a warehouse full of diverse stock and shelf space that is virtual and costs nothing to expand by adding pages (ala Amazon). It seems to me that they've acted more like fish in a pond that's been drying up. Struggling to stay in a deep enough spot to keep breathing. I get a better price, better selection and more information browsing Amazon, but I'm not about to blame the physical book stores for going out of business because they changed, man. Related: http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2011/07/12/the-secret-bookstore/ http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2011/07/12/the-secret-boo...

cafard 15y ago

They've gotten worse. Borders was a revelation when it showed up on Rockville Pike outside Washington. I was delighted when it came to downtown at 18th & L NW. But during the last several years I could see (for example) the poetry shelves squeezing down from most of two free-standing chest-height shelves to part of one; the history section much compressed; the computing shelves progressively thinner and less organized.

jcurbo 15y ago
I've only lived in the DC area for 6 mo. or so, but I've been to the Borders in Silver Spring, North Bethesda, Bethesda, and downtown and thought they were horrible, at least on price and probably on selection too. The B&N near Metro Center, on the other hand, had a much better selection when I went there for the first time last weekend. I found at least 4 books I wanted - however, I buy everything from Amazon (lower prices, or used books) and put them all on my wish list there.
- trotsky 15y ago
  It's been almost six months since borders filed for bankruptcy, and they were having cash flow problems before that. Many suppliers have been insisting on cash terms, which must have put a serious dent in their stocks. I was at a borders last week looking for a brand new Stross hardcover that I was willing to pay full price for but they didn't have it. An employee said they wouldn't be getting it, yet they definitely would have in years past.
- lallysingh 15y ago
  I remember the Borders in Springfield VA having grad-level CS textbooks. Now it's just heartbreakingly depressing.

Lost_BiomedE 15y ago

Many stores have become worse in the exact same way, but the bookstores have been bitten by it sooner than some others. Stores started, even before the economic downturn, to not carry items that are niche or infrequently needed. Sure, many of the items that are still there were bought most, or brought better margin, but the reason people went there without question was because the niche items were there, too. Electronic stores are another example of the same thing, and IMO, have been hurt because of it. There are a lot of short-term gains for long-term losses. I think consumers warmed to buying on the internet because the local stores failed them. They were willing to pay the premium and were scared of and disliked online transactions. Now, the cat is out of the bag. Some of this was due to commercial real estate prices shooting up but a good amount was their own doing. Have you noticed that many brands, in many different markets, that had the biggest following 10 to 15 years ago are some of the worst now? They rid the brand to death for short-term gains. Now, I take a good look at the less-known brands before ever thinking of going with the big traditional names.

makmanalp 15y ago

I'll bring in another perspective. I'm in a huge dilemma. I love books. I also like paper books, but I believe that in the long run we're better off without them for economic and environmental reasons, and e-books are a pretty darned good alternative. I think that the inherent value of a book is its contents. Whether it is tangible or not doesn't matter as much. Because of this, I think book romanticism is pretty stupid. However, I can't help but feel captivated by it. I have a few theories on why this may be so: I do like that my books are tangible possessions, that I can look back at the notes my father made into them in college, that I can find an old train pass I used as a bookmark that brings back memories. Or I know that that mark is from when I spilled coffee all over my theory of computation book when I fell asleep studying for the final. I associate my books with other things, thoughts. Currently this doesn't quite work this way with e-books. That's why they don't feel "personal". This can be remedied, but I don't know to what extent. I don't give a damn about big box stores, but I care very much about my local stores. The difference is in experience. When I'm buying a book, I don't want to feel like I'm a standardized entity there to benefit a company whose sole purpose is to maximize profits. The alternative to this what I can only describe as "intellectual flirtation". Example: Today I happened to have some free time and I wandered into my favorite bookstore. I looked around, grabbed a book about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and sat in a corner reading for an hour. No one nagged me to buy anything. The book was well written but it wasn't as comprehensive as I hoped, so I moved to the fiction section, and onto mathematics, dipping into books as I wished. Finally, I found a book about the role of Tea in Japanese culture and decided to buy it. While I was paying, the cashier struck up a conversation with me about the book itself and we had a small debate about the topic and he also recommended another author to me. Now, as you can see the act of going to a bookstore is not a thing I do just to buy books. I do it so I can have a change of scenery and pace, relax, learn and have some personal time to just think (when do we do that, seriously?). I also do it because it's profoundly social (i.e. not web 2.0 style "me too" social). I like conversing about the things I find interesting, and it seems bookstores gather people like me, whether they work there or just visit to buy. Finally, the cost of all this is a possible few extra dollars on my book. It's a tough choice for me.

lhnn 15y ago
Romanticism is just that: a love for something because of what you believe it to be about: every nuance that makes an experience or thing what it is. Thus, romanticism is quite opinionated. To call it 'stupid' is a little harsh, but I won't rip you up about it like I wanted to (as someone who likes books). To say books are an environmental detriment is incorrect; wood (paper) is one of the most renewable of resources, and when harvested responsibly (as is done in the US on the whole), it actually creates a net of more trees planted than would otherwise exist in our modern society. Arguably, the plastics and battery chemicals of ebook readers is more damaging to our planet. Not that I think it's a particular concern. To your last three paragraphs, I agree.

jerhewet 15y ago

It's not the stores as much as it's the publishers and editors. The good editors are long retired, and what's left are the MBA's that are creaming their jeans to find the next hot vampire / zombie / weresomething romance trend. The current crop of publishers and editors are operating without the vaguest hint of a clue. We're in a slump, but I'm not sure when (or even if) we're going to see any kind of recovery. I'm pretty sure I know how to solve the problem, but nobody would like the answer.

yolesaber 15y ago
I would like to hear the answer.

fpgeek 15y ago

I suspect bookstores are about the same (at least Borders & B&N haven't seemed terribly different to me than they were in the 90s). The difference is that alternative ways of buying books (Amazon, ebooks, etc.) have gotten much, much better, so bookstores look much worse in comparison.

patrickgzill 15y ago

* Crome Yellow (no "h") The issue IMHO is that: 1) their buyers, who are the people that decide what each store stocks, deteriorated from "people who knew books" to "people who knew inventory control" ; as a result, the bookstore selection has gotten markedly worse as you have noticed. 2) they have suffered from a lack of seriousness in approaching what a good bokstore should be. Instead of being true to themselves and having an excellent book selection, they add "features" like a coffee shop, games, paper and pens, etc. all of which dilutes their original purpose.

JulianMorrison 15y ago

The Wal-Mart model is what you get when profit margins are collapsing towards zero. There isn't the surplus sloshing around to support more than a few big players in the market, skilled staff, or worthy but unpopular products.