5 ms·

I have been programming since 1977/78, and sometimes for work, but most of the time for fun. As someone who does technical work at heights with rope access, and

by eggy 5y ago

I have been programming since 1977/78, and sometimes for work, but most of the time for fun. As someone who does technical work at heights with rope access, and many years of technical diving on hydraulics, pneumatic, and electrical equipment, I can say it all depends on your ability to shut out interruptions and get to a good stopping point. I get frustrated when I am programming and I am interrupted, but my most frustrating experience was troubleshooting a technical issue at heights, underwater, or on the deck during a show with almost 2000 patrons getting impatient, while a COO/CFO wants an estimate on when you will solve the as-yet-unidentified issue. They call the show off if you can't get an estimate to repair or resume after 15 min. and they expect you to hold to your time-to-repair or resume estimate. Oh, and half a million to one million USD are at stake! You might be standing in front of a controls cabinet with hundreds of wires and devices and some indications of where to look, or 10m underwater trying to find a source of the fault. I think interruptions suck for any person who is focused on doing a good job - bus drivers, pilots (yes, I know - autopilot!), soldiers in combat, air traffic controllers, chefs, almost any job. This is why I never took a job coding full time. It is always secondary to my actual job even if it is important. And, I like J and APL for the very reason that you are looking at a few lines of code vs. a few pages of for loops ;) I code in C and other languages as well, so no offense to those who work mainly with scalars ;)

lostphilosopher 5y ago
FWIW I think you could write an interesting book.
- rendall 5y ago
  I would read the hell out of that book. Or blog
  - juststeve 5y ago
    back of an envelope would be fine also
- eggy 5y ago
  Thank you. I've been torn about a private vs. public life. I have always enjoyed the immediacy of the moment in life having lost friends while still in my teens. I am very tech savvy, and I love GoPros and smartphones for what they are, but I rarely film or photo myself. I do journal, so perhaps when I stop playing around, I'll try writing a book for my children.
  - mrburkins 5y ago
    Please do. Having lost my dad somewhat unexpectedly I would have loved something like this. I have 2 kids now and think besides financial security, journals, letters etc might be one of the most valuable things I could give them. That way they know me whether I’m here to tell them or not
    - eggy 5y ago
      Yes, it would be a primary motivation for me to memorialize my life for my children. It's tough losing a parent; my condolences on your father's passing. A friend I've known for 39 years is currently dying of ALS. It's crazy how fast it is taking him. He was just rennovating a house a year ago. He started a second family before being diagnosed, and he has a three year old. I remembered the Michael Keaton movie, My Life, where he makes videos of a bunch of things to teach his child when he is gone. I am horrible at the whole photo/video thing of myself. I guess it's the focus of being in the moment, and not sufficiently planning for it, so I am grateful my wife takes photos and videos once and a while with me in them.
thayne 5y ago
Yes, I think it applies to any technical work, not just coding.
- dgeiser13 5y ago
  I think it would be unfair to limit it to technical work. I think people who excel in any "think heavy" work would prefer not to be interrupted while they think. Not all "think heavy" work is technical.
dagurp 5y ago
Airline pilots have a very high workload when landing and it requires intense focus starting about 30 minute before. They are not allowed to talk about anything unrelated in that period.
- easygenes 5y ago
  Yup, and you can be very grateful for their decisions in that period as well. The most hairy flight I’ve been on involved trying to land in Kampala in the midst of a terrible thunderstorm. Turbulence like I’d never felt before (after hundreds of flights). A hushed stillness in the cabin, people grabbing their loved ones. From the amount of time you’ve been descending and the feeling of the flight you know you’re on final approach. Then wham, it feels like the plane fell out of the sky, and it’s still black out the window. A moment more calm. You look around; you thought what you felt before was the worst turbulence ever but now you’re surprised the plane is in one piece still. Then the pilot aborts approach at full throttle and you’re pushed back in your seat with unusual force. A couple of minutes pass. You’re still ascending. The pilot announces you’ll circle for another 20 minutes waiting for the storm to pass, and if not they will have to return to the port of departure.
  - thr0w__4w4y 5y ago
    Yes I've been in that situation (as a passenger, not a pilot!) Incredible how much power the aircraft has at full throttle. A lot of people freak out or panic in that situation, because it's so abrupt, but it's a sign that the pilot(s) are trying to go from a very dangerous/tricky situation to a much safer scenario. For me, the situation was a horrific and violent summer thunderstorm in Dallas. But the pilots handled it and we landed safely the 2nd time.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  That’s the so-called “sterile cockpit rule” and it exists, is generally for ground operations and flight ops (other than level cruise) at/below 10K feet, which isn’t 30 minutes before landing, but rather a third to half of that, typically.
vjdingdong 5y ago
Your interruptions/work-context are way out there in terms of stress/impact etc. APL and J : Agreed. Haskell is my refuge when Python starts getting verbose. Even if you're interrupted, there's a slim chance with concise languages that you could carry that line in your head even as you are dragged away from your context.
- eggy 5y ago
  I do love Haskell too, but I am only a dilettante. I played with Euterpea[1], and I like it's mathematical bent like J and APL. I could probably get more practical work done with Haskell, but I like the way J and APL make me iterate on a short piece of code until it is a diamond. I should look at Haskell again... I sometimes write J by hand on paper. [1] https://www.euterpea.com/haskell-school-of-music/ https://www.euterpea.com/haskell-school-of-music/
H8crilA 5y ago
Wow, what made you keep a job with such unreasonably high stress from the upper management? I would've told them to fuck off at some point, probably the second or third time someone is being this unreasonable.
- eggy 5y ago
  First, solve the problem at hand. Second, then make your grievances. Always take the high road, and debate later, unless it's a life or death situation. Principles before personalities.
  - H8crilA 5y ago
    What grievances? I just mean there's a ton of jobs out there and some of them come with high management pressure, while others don't. And I'm trying to figure out why would specific people take the more stressful kind, for example is there something that compensates for that? Maybe a generous vacation schedule / low workload most of the time?
    - eggy 5y ago
      In my case, foreign travel and living, very good pay, and I guess I am an adventure junkie. Diving, ropes, bungee jumping, motorcycles, and many other things take my fancy, but sometimes just living somewhere that takes me outside myself. How do you put a value on that? Also, when there's a high signal to noise ratio, the truth tempers it for me no matter who or how much they bluster. For somebody, breaking a finger nail can be a full day ordeal, and that's not being totally sarcastic, but realizing that you need to understand what perspective the other person has. The COO/CFO is looking at managing the fallout of your immediate emergency, so they have other things on their minds, and perhaps they don't maintain a professional persona that day, but hey, I have my bad days too, and I'd like to get through it as smoothly as possible. When you are fast to point your finger at someone, remember, there are three of your own fingers pointing right back at you!
  - binkHN 5y ago
    > Principles before personalities. Love this.

by eggy 5y ago

lostphilosopher 5y ago

FWIW I think you could write an interesting book.

rendall 5y ago
I would read the hell out of that book. Or blog
- juststeve 5y ago
  back of an envelope would be fine also
eggy 5y ago
Thank you. I've been torn about a private vs. public life. I have always enjoyed the immediacy of the moment in life having lost friends while still in my teens. I am very tech savvy, and I love GoPros and smartphones for what they are, but I rarely film or photo myself. I do journal, so perhaps when I stop playing around, I'll try writing a book for my children.
- mrburkins 5y ago
  Please do. Having lost my dad somewhat unexpectedly I would have loved something like this. I have 2 kids now and think besides financial security, journals, letters etc might be one of the most valuable things I could give them. That way they know me whether I’m here to tell them or not
  - eggy 5y ago
    Yes, it would be a primary motivation for me to memorialize my life for my children. It's tough losing a parent; my condolences on your father's passing. A friend I've known for 39 years is currently dying of ALS. It's crazy how fast it is taking him. He was just rennovating a house a year ago. He started a second family before being diagnosed, and he has a three year old. I remembered the Michael Keaton movie, My Life, where he makes videos of a bunch of things to teach his child when he is gone. I am horrible at the whole photo/video thing of myself. I guess it's the focus of being in the moment, and not sufficiently planning for it, so I am grateful my wife takes photos and videos once and a while with me in them.

thayne 5y ago

Yes, I think it applies to any technical work, not just coding.

dgeiser13 5y ago
I think it would be unfair to limit it to technical work. I think people who excel in any "think heavy" work would prefer not to be interrupted while they think. Not all "think heavy" work is technical.

dagurp 5y ago

Airline pilots have a very high workload when landing and it requires intense focus starting about 30 minute before. They are not allowed to talk about anything unrelated in that period.

easygenes 5y ago
Yup, and you can be very grateful for their decisions in that period as well. The most hairy flight I’ve been on involved trying to land in Kampala in the midst of a terrible thunderstorm. Turbulence like I’d never felt before (after hundreds of flights). A hushed stillness in the cabin, people grabbing their loved ones. From the amount of time you’ve been descending and the feeling of the flight you know you’re on final approach. Then wham, it feels like the plane fell out of the sky, and it’s still black out the window. A moment more calm. You look around; you thought what you felt before was the worst turbulence ever but now you’re surprised the plane is in one piece still. Then the pilot aborts approach at full throttle and you’re pushed back in your seat with unusual force. A couple of minutes pass. You’re still ascending. The pilot announces you’ll circle for another 20 minutes waiting for the storm to pass, and if not they will have to return to the port of departure.
- thr0w__4w4y 5y ago
  Yes I've been in that situation (as a passenger, not a pilot!) Incredible how much power the aircraft has at full throttle. A lot of people freak out or panic in that situation, because it's so abrupt, but it's a sign that the pilot(s) are trying to go from a very dangerous/tricky situation to a much safer scenario. For me, the situation was a horrific and violent summer thunderstorm in Dallas. But the pilots handled it and we landed safely the 2nd time.
sokoloff 5y ago
That’s the so-called “sterile cockpit rule” and it exists, is generally for ground operations and flight ops (other than level cruise) at/below 10K feet, which isn’t 30 minutes before landing, but rather a third to half of that, typically.

vjdingdong 5y ago

Your interruptions/work-context are way out there in terms of stress/impact etc. APL and J : Agreed. Haskell is my refuge when Python starts getting verbose. Even if you're interrupted, there's a slim chance with concise languages that you could carry that line in your head even as you are dragged away from your context.

eggy 5y ago
I do love Haskell too, but I am only a dilettante. I played with Euterpea[1], and I like it's mathematical bent like J and APL. I could probably get more practical work done with Haskell, but I like the way J and APL make me iterate on a short piece of code until it is a diamond. I should look at Haskell again... I sometimes write J by hand on paper. [1] https://www.euterpea.com/haskell-school-of-music/ https://www.euterpea.com/haskell-school-of-music/

H8crilA 5y ago

Wow, what made you keep a job with such unreasonably high stress from the upper management? I would've told them to fuck off at some point, probably the second or third time someone is being this unreasonable.

eggy 5y ago
First, solve the problem at hand. Second, then make your grievances. Always take the high road, and debate later, unless it's a life or death situation. Principles before personalities.
- H8crilA 5y ago
  What grievances? I just mean there's a ton of jobs out there and some of them come with high management pressure, while others don't. And I'm trying to figure out why would specific people take the more stressful kind, for example is there something that compensates for that? Maybe a generous vacation schedule / low workload most of the time?
  - eggy 5y ago
    In my case, foreign travel and living, very good pay, and I guess I am an adventure junkie. Diving, ropes, bungee jumping, motorcycles, and many other things take my fancy, but sometimes just living somewhere that takes me outside myself. How do you put a value on that? Also, when there's a high signal to noise ratio, the truth tempers it for me no matter who or how much they bluster. For somebody, breaking a finger nail can be a full day ordeal, and that's not being totally sarcastic, but realizing that you need to understand what perspective the other person has. The COO/CFO is looking at managing the fallout of your immediate emergency, so they have other things on their minds, and perhaps they don't maintain a professional persona that day, but hey, I have my bad days too, and I'd like to get through it as smoothly as possible. When you are fast to point your finger at someone, remember, there are three of your own fingers pointing right back at you!
- binkHN 5y ago
  > Principles before personalities. Love this.